None: 0:06

Welcome to the Leading Conversations podcast sponsored by the Excel Leadership Network. On each episode, jd Paring will have conversations with church planting pastors and leaders from around the country. You can learn more about how to connect with Excel at the end of this podcast. Let's join JD now and listen in on this leading conversation.

J.D. Pearring: 0:29

Well, welcome to another Leading Conversations podcast with Accelerated Leadership Network. Today we have the privilege to have the great Marlon Minx with us. Marlon, I guess, is the National Director of Grand Poobah for Church Planet, for Converge, and you're due, you're due, marlon, to come on this. Yes, apparently that's an inside joke about Dusty Baker and Cubs and Giants and baseball. I won't even explain it, I'll just say it. No, no, but it's a good one.

Marlon Mincks: 1:02

You had the bend there.

J.D. Pearring: 1:03

Yeah, good, well, you're in Iowa right now. Yes, is it?

Marlon Mincks: 1:09

heaven, or is it Iowa? It's Iowa. You know it's Iowa's great in the summer, and then winter comes and then you wish you weren't in Iowa so much, but yeah, it's still good. This time of year is great.

J.D. Pearring: 1:23

Sell me on Iowa. Why would I move there?

Marlon Mincks: 1:26

Well, you would move here if you wanted to, you know, be out in nature more, if you didn't want neighbors right next to you. Necessarily, most towns are pretty quiet unless you get to the major cities, so you can kind of live your life in peace and do whatever you want. So there's, there's that value Great.

J.D. Pearring: 1:49

So we'll see a bunch of Californians moving out there.

Marlon Mincks: 1:52

Yes, yeah, most likely Housing is cheap. That's another thing. Okay, good, good.

J.D. Pearring: 1:57

What does a three-bedroom, two-bath house go for?

Marlon Mincks: 2:01

Well, maybe $150,000, $175,000.

J.D. Pearring: 2:06

uh, 150, 175 oh my goodness, yeah, that's great. Yes, yeah, that's barely a down payment in california, right or something?

Marlon Mincks: 2:14

probably not nearly as nice, but you do have neighbors like right on top of you there right I'll share the bathroom with you so yeah, here you can have a yard size of a football field if that's what you want, you know so.

J.D. Pearring: 2:29

Great, well, I'll pack up and move out there. Hey start at the beginning. How did you grow up? How did you come to Christ? How did that happen?

Marlon Mincks: 2:37

Yeah, I grew up as a Catholic, you know, I went to Catholic school through eighth grade. I was an altar boy, that whole thing. You know we were Irish Catholics, so that's kind of I always tell people. That's like being in the mob and you don't just leave and it's not easy to leave.

Marlon Mincks: 2:55

But in my early twenties, kind of out on my own, went through some really tough times, you know, trying to find out, figure out who I was. Some really tough times, you know, trying to find out, figure out who I was. And in that, you know, god reached into my life and it changed everything, gave me direction, gave me hope. I was an only child. My father died when I was a year old, and so a lot of women around the house but knew nothing about being a man or being a husband, any of that. And you know, as it turns out, that I found all of that in Christ. He gave me direction, he gave me hope, he gave me men in my life, you know which. You were one of those people that early on I was like amazed that I could work with you. You know we started doing assessments. I went through the assessment in 2000. And then 2002, I'm going to every single one on my own dime and you know you gave me a shot and I learned a lot from you. I still feel bad.

J.D. Pearring: 4:00

I don't remember this, but when you went through assessments, assessment and you did, I think you did through philosophy of ministry you said that.

None: 4:07

I asked you a question that was.

J.D. Pearring: 4:09

I don't know, maybe it was inappropriate. So what did I?

Marlon Mincks: 4:14

say it was something about you know where did you come up with that? And I said, I don't know in the moment, I guess, because I had no idea what philosophy of ministry was at that point. And but but yeah, you had, you know, you had a image, you had a this thing about everybody knew. I still, I still remember so many great lines that you delivered to people. I still remember so many great lines that you delivered to people. And so at that moment, like, oh you know, kind of set me back, made me think.

J.D. Pearring: 4:54

But it all worked out. Yeah, in my defense and part of my apologies, I don't think we were warned or not warned, but told that you were fairly new to the whole process.

Marlon Mincks: 5:11

Absolutely. You know I'd been in the working world and I'd had several positions, part-time, in churches, and then I was an interim when a pastor left, you know, for 13 months, trial by fire came out of that said no way, I'm not, I'm done with ministry, but the assessment center, it was that moment. I can still put a flag in that timeline and say, right there, that's where God redirected us to ministry. And you know, we ended up planning a church a year later and the church is still going. Now my son is leading that, that church now. So you know, all of that happened because of that assessment center and that whole timeline.

J.D. Pearring: 5:47

Well, tell me the and we can talk more about that as we go along, because your assessment center participation is legendary when I was there. Now you've been running it for what has it been? 16 years? Something like that, 17, 18? I don't even know. Like that, 17, 18, I don't even know it's been a long time. Yeah, it's been a long time, at least that yeah, but what brought you to Christ as a, as a fellow Irish Catholic mom? Uh, how did that happen for you?

Marlon Mincks: 6:19

yeah. So you know I uh, because I had no father, I had no real direction, you know. So, figure out life on your own. And I did. And it ended me up, you know, with some run-ins with the law. I was probably going to do at least a couple of years in jail and I laid on the bed.

Marlon Mincks: 6:38

I was married by that time. Marriage wasn't going well. Laid on the bed, I just said God, what do you want from me? And I remember him saying to me tell the truth. And so that opportunity come. And actually my wife tried to defend me at that point and I heard that voice again. I don't know, was it in my head, was it outside? I don't know. I just know, at that moment God was saying to me tell the truth. And so I did. I said wait a minute, no, I did that and I did this and I did that. And I still tell people. I said, you know, after I told the truth, I walked over to the window. I looked out on the farm that we lived on at that time. We were renting the house there and I took this breath that, I believe, is the first thing a baby breathes when he is born. And I just knew man. God forgave me in that moment.

Marlon Mincks: 7:30

I started over with him. We didn't have a lot of evangelical churches around and so I began to read scripture myself, found another friend who had recently been saved, and then from there, you know, finally found a church and it just continued to grow. And all of that, and then I started getting the idea that God was leading me to. You know, share my faith. We started going to Luther College, which was in Decor, iowa. We'd go there every week. We'd walk through the dorms, knock on doors and, you know, share our faith with people Didn't really know what we're doing. We just felt compelled that this was such a big thing that we needed to do something.

Marlon Mincks: 8:10

I would say in life I often did not have the knowledge to do what I was about to do. But God opened the door and I made a promise. I said you open the door, I'll walk through it whatever it is. Opened the door and I made a promise. I said you open the door, I'll walk through it whatever it is. And I think everything in my life to this point has been simply I just walked through the door. God, what are you going to do?

Marlon Mincks: 8:32

And so I came to Christ began a long, slow turn. I think that I shouldn't have stayed married because of what had happened, but I did, still married today to that woman, the greatest woman that I've ever known, you know, showing me grace and mercy, and, you know, gave us kids and they just completely turned our life around, to the point that I used to churches would love to have me come share my testimony, you know, and I would get done, and I would sit down next to my wife. I said, is that true? Is that, is that accurate? Like I had lost who I was before. I didn't even know that person. And so, yeah, just an incredible journey that I look back now and I just say, man, but but there, for the hand of God, go I. So yeah, yeah.

J.D. Pearring: 9:25

Well and talk about. Was there a specific call to ministry?

Marlon Mincks: 9:30

Yeah, I think so. You know right away. So how do you learn about God in a town that you know there's not a lot of evangelical churches? So I at that time, you know, I'm finding everyone's messages. Back then you would buy tapes, cds, and man, I'm buying left and right and I am just digesting everything that I'm hearing. And it was so. You know, the Bible says be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That's how it happens. By hearing God's word and just devouring that. I just couldn't get enough. So I'm listening to everybody and you know, I had a job at that time.

Marlon Mincks: 10:10

I got headphones on a day and night. I'm just, and for some reason, you know, when I hear God's word, it's just like, oh, I know what that means, I know what that looks like. So you know, understanding how that translates into your daily life was always easy for me. I'm like, oh well, this, this, of course, course, is how then I should live, how then I should decide. That was always easy for me. So the call to ministry in that I think my wife saw it first. She's like, you know, someday you're going to be a pastor, you're going to be a preacher, and I said, man, the last thing I will ever do is that and I remember when I said that turned out to be not true and God just continued to call me to ministry, even when I came to the assessment center in 2000. Actually, I came there thinking I don't want to do ministry because we had been just butchered in a church where I was the interim for 13 months. That's why they were looking for their next pastor Came out of there just said there's no way I'll do this.

Marlon Mincks: 11:13

In the assessment center, you know, you got a great look at who you really are and I remember one of the assessors saying to me at the end. He said listen, you are a wounded healer, you need to heal other people. And the man sitting with Jerry Dahl, you know, at the time he just spoke into my life. He said you know when, honestly, when I saw you preaching, I thought, well, here's a guy that'll reach a few people down at the coffee shop. And he said then I looked up and listened and I didn't see you at all. I heard Jesus. And that was a turning point in our lives. Like we're going home, I don't care what happens now, but I'm going to go through any door you open for me, and it was, you know, we knew nothing about it. It was saying okay, god, you're calling us to plant a new church and we're going to do this one way or another.

Marlon Mincks: 12:06

And I had been fairly entrepreneurial. I've always had businesses, was a cabinetmaker for 13 years Everything that I've ever looked at in life. I'm like how can I make money doing this? You know, how can I build this up? I mean, that's my kids will tell you every day started with, okay, here's what we're going to do. So that part was easy for me. But then I just took a year and had a job and he let me go. As much as I needed was and how to, you know, assess people. And all of that just became such a powerful thing in the steps that I would need to plant a church. And so it was just thinking back on. It's like so many times I'm like I don't know what I'm doing, but here I go Because I felt that God called me to do this and I was not going to give it up for anything, no matter what it costs us.

Marlon Mincks: 13:20

When we planted, we cashed in our retirement, moved to the town where we planted, not knowing how we're going to make it, but going. You called me to this, you're going to take care of me one way or another, and I never took a full salary from the church. We planted and didn't care. I'm like I'll figure out. I'll do two things. I'll make a living Actually, my son was the first one to take a full salary from the church and God moved me into Converge, moved me into a lot of different ministries and opportunities and never missed a paycheck. He has just taken care of us in amazing ways.

J.D. Pearring: 14:00

The assessment center stuff was interesting because you came to one and then you came to another and you just started coming and we had a great time. I'd be talking baseball talking about we can write a book about this, but this stuff's confidential. We should go in together and write one right before both of us get canceled completely by everybody.

J.D. Pearring: 14:24

Absolutely yeah, I've got a couple other books that are ready to go as soon as I think I'm done. But I asked you how can you come? You said this is my coaching. There is something. You're such a just a learner, somebody who has great discernment. Being in the room, we call them discovery centers, uh, or assessment, hearing other people's take, I think you just grow, you go, oh, wow, that's a different perspective. I never even saw that before, absolutely, but those were just wonderful days. And then, when you know, when I got ready to leave's like Marlon's obviously the guy to take this thing over. I use you as an illustration for leadership, marlon, all the time, with one question I get asked all the time is where do you find leaders? How do you find leaders? You're planting these churches, where do you find leaders, which I think is okay.

J.D. Pearring: 15:29

If you ask that question, you have kind of defined who you are, because apostolic people, our particular network, is made of remotely apostolic people, so leaders are always around, and if you have any sort of apostolic or spiritual entrepreneur thing, you just look around, you know. So how do you find leaders?

None: 15:44

Well, you, just turn around, there's Marlon Every time I ask who's the leader. Well, there's.

J.D. Pearring: 15:47

Marlon and obviously this guy's kind of quiet. He didn't come in and just demand a little unassuming but super sharp guy who could just handle that. But I really appreciated when he said, oh, this is my coaching.

Marlon Mincks: 16:04

Yeah.

J.D. Pearring: 16:05

Because you get to rub shoulders with other leaders, you get to see new people, you get rejuvenated. Hey, these people are going to go out there and turn the world upside down. I want to be part of that, so let me just personally thank you for coming up to those. It would have been a lot less fun if you weren't there.

Marlon Mincks: 16:24

It was fun. It was fun. I've always told my sons I said, listen, someone has the answer. Your job is to find that person. If the person is in the White House, I'm climbing the fence to ask them. And you know, be humble and watching people, hearing, listening. That has always been. I'm kind of a copycat, so like I would even I preach after that and I would even hear your voice in me. So you know, I'm seeing people's body language and all of that stuff and at the same time, ask, asking questions how did you do this, how did you do that? What would you think in this situation would be a good option. You know that is, there is more than enough people to teach you if you really want to open up and and spend the time. I think I came to it saying I know nothing about this, but I'm going to find out and so, but yeah, you made it a lot of fun.

J.D. Pearring: 17:20

So Well, we might have even got some work done. Well, there's nothing else to do in Green Lake, Wisconsin. You better go find yourself Nothing. Hey, talk about the handoff to your son. How did that come about? How did that work?

Marlon Mincks: 17:36

Yeah. So you know, I've always done many things, and so while we're planting a church, I had gotten a call from a district leader who said hey, can you help us at this church some conflict stuff. And I had done a fair amount of conflict resolution, not something I love, but something I think that I'm wired for and I can hear, listen, I can point out the struggles, the issues and then make a path forward. And so I said, no, I really can't do it. And well, could you just speak the next two Sundays until I find somebody. Well, that turned into a year and a half, and in that year and a half it was in Minneapolis, so I'm three hours from there. My son, who had done some preaching kind of took over and he had previously talked about, you know, leading or whatnot or being in ministry. And I said, you know, I just think that when the day comes, the church will have to search for someone, because I didn't see that it was him at all.

Marlon Mincks: 18:36

But what happened in that year and a half? And he did most of that time in the church that I'd started, iron Ridge Church, the church that I'd started Iron Ridge Church he really grew and he really worked hard at his craft and at leading people and preaching, and so all of a sudden it's like, well, this is a no brainer, this is the person. We don't have to go through that slump that happens when you get a new pastor and I think the one thing and maybe it's with you too, but you tend to maybe underestimate or be harder on your own kids and you know, the truth is they were there, they worked through it, they saw it all and so if God is leading that way, so the day came, we're like, you know, I think this is our next lead pass. And the church was like absolutely, you know, we love him, he's doing a great job and great at counseling people, all of those things. So it just became natural that I kind of handed it off to him.

Marlon Mincks: 19:35

When he first told me, he said you know, dad, I think I'm getting, I think God's calling me into ministry. I said, hang up, you know, hang up, make him call you back a dozen times. You do not want to do this, but it was evident that God was leading him there. And so now he, he leads the church. I am not known by a lot of people. This is kind of weird but I like it and I help him out where he needs help and you know, we just kind of keep moving down the road. So I've got my own things to do and he's doing a great job.

J.D. Pearring: 20:09

That's a wonderful testimony, that's fantastic. Now you're the, you're the grand poobah of church planting for Converge. Now, what's the, what's the plan, what's the vision?

Marlon Mincks: 20:20

Yeah. So the plan, I think, is, you know, first we spent some time just saying, hey, what matters? And we were on an initiative of 312 churches in five years, and so we wanted to finish that, but at the same time, saying how do we empower the districts through church planning directors in each district to raise them up, develop them, help them to find and teach and deploy church planters? I think one of the things that happens often is we have people in those positions who maybe don't really understand the process, how to find leaders, like you're saying. You know, unless you're wired that way, it is a struggle. And so, putting time and energy into them, into each district, say what are your personal goals? How can we help you reach those goals? That's kind of where we're at right now, and in that, one of the first things that I wanted to do was start a Spanish speaking assessment center. Took us, took us a year to get that. We just had our first one, and what was obvious in it was the amount of energy from Spanish speaking candidates. I was one of just a few, maybe that could speak English. In that I'm using Google Translate, listening, you know more, observing but kind of directing the guy who's the director for us. But the energy you know we go back in the Green Lake days. We always had a lot of Spanish speaking candidates, but they're quieter and they didn't really interact. This was just absolutely a flip on that script. The excitement, the passion to see these first generation people wanting to plant here in America was amazing. So that's another key piece that I wanted to make happen.

Marlon Mincks: 22:10

And then raising money to be able to better assist church planters in developing those churches and getting started. So that's on my board as well. So we currently have had about 800,000 a year. We're trying to raise that now to multiple millions. And so I think you know I remember some days with you talking about things and one thing that was evident here's why I like the assessment center, here's why I like you If we go back to the Team America days and you remember those that was a brotherhood.

Marlon Mincks: 22:47

That brotherhood is absolutely essential to get anything done in church planting on a large scale. You can throw churches out there, but there's something about brotherhood that says, in all of these struggles, I know you got my back and I can call you. You can call me struggles, I know you got my back and I can call you, you can call me whatever. We're going to help you do this, and so I want to bring that back in a stronger way than we have previously. You have always done that. I've always seen that. You have your gatherings, you know it's like that is just so cool, and we kind of got caught up, maybe in a little bit of the how to do things rather than the why.

J.D. Pearring: 23:29

Okay, yeah, the brotherhood thing, that's the, that is the call of God on my life I had. I'm sitting here in Denver and I'm going to drive down to Colorado Springs today and it was what is it, is it? You know? It was 40 years ago probably could have been 40 years ago this today. I was on I-25 and I had this kind of realization, vision from God hey, we need a, we need a fraternity, we need a brother.

J.D. Pearring: 24:04

We need a brother network. We need to bring the church planters and the leaders together. So that's what we try to do, and I believe in you, I believe in Converge. I'm hoping that we can do some stuff together. That'd be great. I'm not. I'm getting more and more frustrated with territorialism and all that sort of stuff, and we're always just looking for kingdom-minded partners, but I'm getting more and more frustrated with territorialism and all that sort of stuff and we're always just looking for kingdom minded partners.

J.D. Pearring: 24:28

But I'm really excited that you're the man in charge now, so that's going to be fun. And I would say with the Spanish speaking, watch out, they multiply. We're doing so many Spanish speaking churches all over and we just can't afford it. But we feel like God's saying hey, just say yes, hey, give us a leadership tip from the man, do you?

Marlon Mincks: 24:59

have something from.

J.D. Pearring: 24:59

Dusty Baker's.

Marlon Mincks: 25:03

Yeah, actually, I'll give you a sports analogy. Okay, yeah actually I'll give you a sports analogy, okay. So, um, you know the uh trying to think who was a quarterback in chicago here about three, four years ago.

J.D. Pearring: 25:17

He was from denver. Um, oh, I know what you're talking about. Not for that before that, but yeah before that the guy that moved in northern idaho and yes yes.

Marlon Mincks: 25:24

You know, the big knock on him was that he didn't look like everybody else, and I think in leadership, what you got to do is find your stride. My stride has always been to watch, listen, ask questions and then move forward, rather than this is what I'm going to do. I see so many people have an agenda before they ever get up to the plate, right, and so if you're playing baseball, it's knowing that pitcher, it's hearing from other people hey, how did you bat against this guy? What is this stuff like? All of those things are preparation for the decisions you're going to make, and I think the longer you can do that, especially as a new leader, the more you're going to make. And I think the longer you can do that, especially as a new leader, the more you're going to have in your arsenal as you get farther into the game and are leading people.

Marlon Mincks: 26:17

I still make decisions. I go, oh, that's something JD taught me or that's something someone else taught me. I still remember those things. That's where I got them. I'm a byproduct of everyone else's leadership around me, and I'm not afraid to say that I don't need people to look at me as if I'm something amazing. I just want to have fun with people, learn with people and then throw some touchdowns. You know and so listen, learn from others and slow down and wait for your day to throw a touchdown. It doesn't have to come on the first play of the game.

J.D. Pearring: 26:57

That's great, great stuff. Hey, let me end with the whole Dusty Baker thing. Yeah, at that time when we were working, I think he was, he was managing the giants and then he went on to the cubs and you're a big cubs fan, but we would joke that, uh, the giants had a center fielder, marvin bernard, and he couldn't hit and he couldn't steal and he was a bad fielder and the the press would say he's over 32, why are you playing him? And he would just say, well, he's due. Yeah, he's been thrown out trying to steal a second eight times in a row. Why do you keep sending him? And would say, well, he's due.

J.D. Pearring: 27:34

You know, um, and the thing I think about just kind of hit me looking at you here, talking to you is that's how we should be treating people, you know, instead of just throwing them on the, the trash heap. Everybody's got the potential in them and maybe they shouldn't be playing center field and leading off and stealing bases. But that optimism of, hey, god's got something good for every person out there, every leader, like you said, is going to have his day.

Marlon Mincks: 28:03

So thanks for your impact on my life.

J.D. Pearring: 28:05

Like I said, I I talk about how do you find leaders? You just look for Marlon.

Marlon Mincks: 28:10

Yeah.

J.D. Pearring: 28:12

He's the. You know, when Paul and Barnabas broke up, barnabas took, he took John Mark. And it says and Paul chose Silas. And I'm thinking who's Silas? Well, silas was Marlon, he was just right there. Oh, there he is.

Marlon Mincks: 28:31

Right.

J.D. Pearring: 28:32

Well, hey, thanks for being on, thanks for all you do. I'm really looking forward to seeing God continue to use you and use Converge and use us together. So, absolutely, thanks a ton, you bet. Have a great day.

None: 28:48

Thanks for joining the Leading Conversations podcast. We hope that you found it both helpful and encouraging. At Excel Leadership Network, our focus is on the church planter rather than the church. If you'd like to find out more about us, visit our webpage at excelnetworkorg. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. See you next time with another leading conversation.