Life Transforming Conversations With Marlon Minx

None 0:06

Welcome to the Leading Conversations podcast sponsored by the Excel Leadership Network . On each episode , jd Paring will have conversations with church planting pastors and leaders from around the country . You can learn more about how to connect with Excel at the end of this podcast . Let's join JD now and listen in on this leading conversation .

J.D. Pearring 0:29

Well , welcome to another Leading Conversations podcast with Accelerated Leadership Network . Today we have the privilege to have the great Marlon Minx with us . Marlon , I guess , is the National Director of Grand Poobah for Church Planet , for Converge , and you're due , you're due , marlon , to come on this . Yes , apparently that's an inside joke about Dusty Baker and Cubs and Giants and baseball . I won't even explain it , I'll just say it . No , no , but it's a good one .

Marlon Mincks 1:02

You had the bend there .

J.D. Pearring 1:03

Yeah , good , well , you're in Iowa right now . Yes , is it ?

Marlon Mincks 1:09

heaven , or is it Iowa ? It's Iowa . You know it's Iowa's great in the summer , and then winter comes and then you wish you weren't in Iowa so much , but yeah , it's still good . This time of year is great .

J.D. Pearring 1:23

Sell me on Iowa . Why would I move there ?

Marlon Mincks 1:26

Well , you would move here if you wanted to , you know , be out in nature more , if you didn't want neighbors right next to you . Necessarily , most towns are pretty quiet unless you get to the major cities , so you can kind of live your life in peace and do whatever you want . So there's , there's that value Great .

J.D. Pearring 1:49

So we'll see a bunch of Californians moving out there .

Marlon Mincks 1:52

Yes , yeah , most likely Housing is cheap . That's another thing . Okay , good , good .

J.D. Pearring 1:57

What does a three-bedroom , two-bath house go for ?

Marlon Mincks 2:01

Well , maybe $150,000 , $175,000 .

J.D. Pearring 2:06

uh , 150 , 175 oh my goodness , yeah , that's great . Yes , yeah , that's barely a down payment in california , right or something ?

Marlon Mincks 2:14

probably not nearly as nice , but you do have neighbors like right on top of you there right I'll share the bathroom with you so yeah , here you can have a yard size of a football field if that's what you want , you know so .

J.D. Pearring 2:29

Great , well , I'll pack up and move out there . Hey start at the beginning . How did you grow up ? How did you come to Christ ? How did that happen ?

Marlon Mincks 2:37

Yeah , I grew up as a Catholic , you know , I went to Catholic school through eighth grade . I was an altar boy , that whole thing . You know we were Irish Catholics , so that's kind of I always tell people . That's like being in the mob and you don't just leave and it's not easy to leave .

Marlon Mincks 2:55

But in my early twenties , kind of out on my own , went through some really tough times , you know , trying to find out , figure out who I was . Some really tough times , you know , trying to find out , figure out who I was . And in that , you know , god reached into my life and it changed everything , gave me direction , gave me hope . I was an only child . My father died when I was a year old , and so a lot of women around the house but knew nothing about being a man or being a husband , any of that . And you know , as it turns out , that I found all of that in Christ . He gave me direction , he gave me hope , he gave me men in my life , you know which . You were one of those people that early on I was like amazed that I could work with you . You know we started doing assessments . I went through the assessment in 2000 . And then 2002 , I'm going to every single one on my own dime and you know you gave me a shot and I learned a lot from you . I still feel bad .

J.D. Pearring 4:00

I don't remember this , but when you went through assessments , assessment and you did , I think you did through philosophy of ministry you said that .

None 4:07

I asked you a question that was .

J.D. Pearring 4:09

I don't know , maybe it was inappropriate . So what did I ?

Marlon Mincks 4:14

say it was something about you know where did you come up with that ? And I said , I don't know in the moment , I guess , because I had no idea what philosophy of ministry was at that point . And but but yeah , you had , you know , you had a image , you had a this thing about everybody knew . I still , I still remember so many great lines that you delivered to people . I still remember so many great lines that you delivered to people . And so at that moment , like , oh you know , kind of set me back , made me think .

J.D. Pearring 4:54

But it all worked out . Yeah , in my defense and part of my apologies , I don't think we were warned or not warned , but told that you were fairly new to the whole process .

Marlon Mincks 5:11

Absolutely . You know I'd been in the working world and I'd had several positions , part-time , in churches , and then I was an interim when a pastor left , you know , for 13 months , trial by fire came out of that said no way , I'm not , I'm done with ministry , but the assessment center , it was that moment . I can still put a flag in that timeline and say , right there , that's where God redirected us to ministry . And you know , we ended up planning a church a year later and the church is still going . Now my son is leading that , that church now . So you know , all of that happened because of that assessment center and that whole timeline .

J.D. Pearring 5:47

Well , tell me the and we can talk more about that as we go along , because your assessment center participation is legendary when I was there . Now you've been running it for what has it been ? 16 years ? Something like that , 17 , 18 ? I don't even know . Like that , 17 , 18 , I don't even know it's been a long time . Yeah , it's been a long time , at least that yeah , but what brought you to Christ as a , as a fellow Irish Catholic mom ? Uh , how did that happen for you ?

Marlon Mincks 6:19

yeah . So you know I uh , because I had no father , I had no real direction , you know . So , figure out life on your own . And I did . And it ended me up , you know , with some run-ins with the law . I was probably going to do at least a couple of years in jail and I laid on the bed .

Marlon Mincks 6:38

I was married by that time . Marriage wasn't going well . Laid on the bed , I just said God , what do you want from me ? And I remember him saying to me tell the truth . And so that opportunity come . And actually my wife tried to defend me at that point and I heard that voice again . I don't know , was it in my head , was it outside ? I don't know . I just know , at that moment God was saying to me tell the truth . And so I did . I said wait a minute , no , I did that and I did this and I did that . And I still tell people . I said , you know , after I told the truth , I walked over to the window . I looked out on the farm that we lived on at that time . We were renting the house there and I took this breath that , I believe , is the first thing a baby breathes when he is born . And I just knew man . God forgave me in that moment .

Marlon Mincks 7:30

I started over with him . We didn't have a lot of evangelical churches around and so I began to read scripture myself , found another friend who had recently been saved , and then from there , you know , finally found a church and it just continued to grow . And all of that , and then I started getting the idea that God was leading me to . You know , share my faith . We started going to Luther College , which was in Decor , iowa . We'd go there every week . We'd walk through the dorms , knock on doors and , you know , share our faith with people Didn't really know what we're doing . We just felt compelled that this was such a big thing that we needed to do something .

Marlon Mincks 8:10

I would say in life I often did not have the knowledge to do what I was about to do . But God opened the door and I made a promise . I said you open the door , I'll walk through it whatever it is . Opened the door and I made a promise . I said you open the door , I'll walk through it whatever it is . And I think everything in my life to this point has been simply I just walked through the door . God , what are you going to do ?

Marlon Mincks 8:32

And so I came to Christ began a long , slow turn . I think that I shouldn't have stayed married because of what had happened , but I did , still married today to that woman , the greatest woman that I've ever known , you know , showing me grace and mercy , and , you know , gave us kids and they just completely turned our life around , to the point that I used to churches would love to have me come share my testimony , you know , and I would get done , and I would sit down next to my wife . I said , is that true ? Is that , is that accurate ? Like I had lost who I was before . I didn't even know that person . And so , yeah , just an incredible journey that I look back now and I just say , man , but but there , for the hand of God , go I . So yeah , yeah .

J.D. Pearring 9:25

Well and talk about . Was there a specific call to ministry ?

Marlon Mincks 9:30

Yeah , I think so . You know right away . So how do you learn about God in a town that you know there's not a lot of evangelical churches ? So I at that time , you know , I'm finding everyone's messages . Back then you would buy tapes , cds , and man , I'm buying left and right and I am just digesting everything that I'm hearing . And it was so . You know , the Bible says be transformed by the renewing of your mind . That's how it happens . By hearing God's word and just devouring that . I just couldn't get enough . So I'm listening to everybody and you know , I had a job at that time .

Marlon Mincks 10:10

I got headphones on a day and night . I'm just , and for some reason , you know , when I hear God's word , it's just like , oh , I know what that means , I know what that looks like . So you know , understanding how that translates into your daily life was always easy for me . I'm like , oh well , this , this , of course , course , is how then I should live , how then I should decide . That was always easy for me . So the call to ministry in that I think my wife saw it first . She's like , you know , someday you're going to be a pastor , you're going to be a preacher , and I said , man , the last thing I will ever do is that and I remember when I said that turned out to be not true and God just continued to call me to ministry , even when I came to the assessment center in 2000 . Actually , I came there thinking I don't want to do ministry because we had been just butchered in a church where I was the interim for 13 months . That's why they were looking for their next pastor Came out of there just said there's no way I'll do this .

Marlon Mincks 11:13

In the assessment center , you know , you got a great look at who you really are and I remember one of the assessors saying to me at the end . He said listen , you are a wounded healer , you need to heal other people . And the man sitting with Jerry Dahl , you know , at the time he just spoke into my life . He said you know when , honestly , when I saw you preaching , I thought , well , here's a guy that'll reach a few people down at the coffee shop . And he said then I looked up and listened and I didn't see you at all . I heard Jesus . And that was a turning point in our lives . Like we're going home , I don't care what happens now , but I'm going to go through any door you open for me , and it was , you know , we knew nothing about it . It was saying okay , god , you're calling us to plant a new church and we're going to do this one way or another .

Marlon Mincks 12:06

And I had been fairly entrepreneurial . I've always had businesses , was a cabinetmaker for 13 years Everything that I've ever looked at in life . I'm like how can I make money doing this ? You know , how can I build this up ? I mean , that's my kids will tell you every day started with , okay , here's what we're going to do . So that part was easy for me . But then I just took a year and had a job and he let me go . As much as I needed was and how to , you know , assess people . And all of that just became such a powerful thing in the steps that I would need to plant a church . And so it was just thinking back on . It's like so many times I'm like I don't know what I'm doing , but here I go Because I felt that God called me to do this and I was not going to give it up for anything , no matter what it costs us .

Marlon Mincks 13:20

When we planted , we cashed in our retirement , moved to the town where we planted , not knowing how we're going to make it , but going . You called me to this , you're going to take care of me one way or another , and I never took a full salary from the church . We planted and didn't care . I'm like I'll figure out . I'll do two things . I'll make a living Actually , my son was the first one to take a full salary from the church and God moved me into Converge , moved me into a lot of different ministries and opportunities and never missed a paycheck . He has just taken care of us in amazing ways .

J.D. Pearring 14:00

The assessment center stuff was interesting because you came to one and then you came to another and you just started coming and we had a great time . I'd be talking baseball talking about we can write a book about this , but this stuff's confidential . We should go in together and write one right before both of us get canceled completely by everybody .

J.D. Pearring 14:24

Absolutely yeah , I've got a couple other books that are ready to go as soon as I think I'm done . But I asked you how can you come ? You said this is my coaching . There is something . You're such a just a learner , somebody who has great discernment . Being in the room , we call them discovery centers , uh , or assessment , hearing other people's take , I think you just grow , you go , oh , wow , that's a different perspective . I never even saw that before , absolutely , but those were just wonderful days . And then , when you know , when I got ready to leave's like Marlon's obviously the guy to take this thing over .

Discovering and Developing Church Leaders

J.D. Pearring 15:10

I use you as an illustration for leadership , marlon , all the time , with one question I get asked all the time is where do you find leaders ? How do you find leaders ? You're planting these churches , where do you find leaders , which I think is okay .

J.D. Pearring 15:29

If you ask that question , you have kind of defined who you are , because apostolic people , our particular network , is made of remotely apostolic people , so leaders are always around , and if you have any sort of apostolic or spiritual entrepreneur thing , you just look around , you know . So how do you find leaders ?

None 15:44

Well , you , just turn around , there's Marlon Every time I ask who's the leader . Well , there's .

J.D. Pearring 15:47

Marlon and obviously this guy's kind of quiet . He didn't come in and just demand a little unassuming but super sharp guy who could just handle that . But I really appreciated when he said , oh , this is my coaching .

Marlon Mincks 16:04

Yeah .

J.D. Pearring 16:05

Because you get to rub shoulders with other leaders , you get to see new people , you get rejuvenated . Hey , these people are going to go out there and turn the world upside down . I want to be part of that , so let me just personally thank you for coming up to those . It would have been a lot less fun if you weren't there .

Marlon Mincks 16:24

It was fun . It was fun . I've always told my sons I said , listen , someone has the answer . Your job is to find that person . If the person is in the White House , I'm climbing the fence to ask them . And you know , be humble and watching people , hearing , listening . That has always been . I'm kind of a copycat , so like I would even I preach after that and I would even hear your voice in me . So you know , I'm seeing people's body language and all of that stuff and at the same time , ask , asking questions how did you do this , how did you do that ? What would you think in this situation would be a good option . You know that is , there is more than enough people to teach you if you really want to open up and and spend the time . I think I came to it saying I know nothing about this , but I'm going to find out and so , but yeah , you made it a lot of fun .

J.D. Pearring 17:20

So Well , we might have even got some work done . Well , there's nothing else to do in Green Lake , Wisconsin . You better go find yourself Nothing . Hey , talk about the handoff to your son . How did that come about ? How did that work ?

Marlon Mincks 17:36

Yeah . So you know , I've always done many things , and so while we're planting a church , I had gotten a call from a district leader who said hey , can you help us at this church some conflict stuff . And I had done a fair amount of conflict resolution , not something I love , but something I think that I'm wired for and I can hear , listen , I can point out the struggles , the issues and then make a path forward . And so I said , no , I really can't do it . And well , could you just speak the next two Sundays until I find somebody . Well , that turned into a year and a half , and in that year and a half it was in Minneapolis , so I'm three hours from there . My son , who had done some preaching kind of took over and he had previously talked about , you know , leading or whatnot or being in ministry . And I said , you know , I just think that when the day comes , the church will have to search for someone , because I didn't see that it was him at all .

Marlon Mincks 18:36

But what happened in that year and a half ? And he did most of that time in the church that I'd started , iron Ridge Church , the church that I'd started Iron Ridge Church he really grew and he really worked hard at his craft and at leading people and preaching , and so all of a sudden it's like , well , this is a no brainer , this is the person . We don't have to go through that slump that happens when you get a new pastor and I think the one thing and maybe it's with you too , but you tend to maybe underestimate or be harder on your own kids and you know , the truth is they were there , they worked through it , they saw it all and so if God is leading that way , so the day came , we're like , you know , I think this is our next lead pass . And the church was like absolutely , you know , we love him , he's doing a great job and great at counseling people , all of those things . So it just became natural that I kind of handed it off to him .

Marlon Mincks 19:35

When he first told me , he said you know , dad , I think I'm getting , I think God's calling me into ministry . I said , hang up , you know , hang up , make him call you back a dozen times . You do not want to do this , but it was evident that God was leading him there . And so now he , he leads the church . I am not known by a lot of people . This is kind of weird but I like it and I help him out where he needs help and you know , we just kind of keep moving down the road . So I've got my own things to do and he's doing a great job .

J.D. Pearring 20:09

That's a wonderful testimony , that's fantastic . Now you're the , you're the grand poobah of church planting for Converge . Now , what's the , what's the plan , what's the vision ?

Marlon Mincks 20:20

Yeah . So the plan , I think , is , you know , first we spent some time just saying , hey , what matters ? And we were on an initiative of 312 churches in five years , and so we wanted to finish that , but at the same time , saying how do we empower the districts through church planning directors in each district to raise them up , develop them , help them to find and teach and deploy church planters ? I think one of the things that happens often is we have people in those positions who maybe don't really understand the process , how to find leaders , like you're saying . You know , unless you're wired that way , it is a struggle . And so , putting time and energy into them , into each district , say what are your personal goals ? How can we help you reach those goals ? That's kind of where we're at right now , and in that , one of the first things that I wanted to do was start a Spanish speaking assessment center . Took us , took us a year to get that . We just had our first one , and what was obvious in it was the amount of energy from Spanish speaking candidates . I was one of just a few , maybe that could speak English . In that I'm using Google Translate , listening , you know more , observing but kind of directing the guy who's the director for us . But the energy you know we go back in the Green Lake days . We always had a lot of Spanish speaking candidates , but they're quieter and they didn't really interact . This was just absolutely a flip on that script . The excitement , the passion to see these first generation people wanting to plant here in America was amazing . So that's another key piece that I wanted to make happen .

Marlon Mincks 22:10

And then raising money to be able to better assist church planters in developing those churches and getting started . So that's on my board as well . So we currently have had about 800,000 a year . We're trying to raise that now to multiple millions . And so I think you know I remember some days with you talking about things and one thing that was evident here's why I like the assessment center , here's why I like you If we go back to the Team America days and you remember those that was a brotherhood .

Marlon Mincks 22:47

That brotherhood is absolutely essential to get anything done in church planting on a large scale . You can throw churches out there , but there's something about brotherhood that says , in all of these struggles , I know you got my back and I can call you . You can call me struggles , I know you got my back and I can call you , you can call me whatever . We're going to help you do this , and so I want to bring that back in a stronger way than we have previously . You have always done that . I've always seen that . You have your gatherings , you know it's like that is just so cool , and we kind of got caught up , maybe in a little bit of the how to do things rather than the why .

J.D. Pearring 23:29

Okay , yeah , the brotherhood thing , that's the , that is the call of God on my life I had . I'm sitting here in Denver and I'm going to drive down to Colorado Springs today and it was what is it , is it ? You know ? It was 40 years ago probably could have been 40 years ago this today . I was on I-25 and I had this kind of realization , vision from God hey , we need a , we need a fraternity , we need a brother .

J.D. Pearring 24:04

We need a brother network . We need to bring the church planters and the leaders together . So that's what we try to do , and I believe in you , I believe in Converge . I'm hoping that we can do some stuff together . That'd be great . I'm not . I'm getting more and more frustrated with territorialism and all that sort of stuff , and we're always just looking for kingdom-minded partners , but I'm getting more and more frustrated with territorialism and all that sort of stuff and we're always just looking for kingdom minded partners .

J.D. Pearring 24:28

But I'm really excited that you're the man in charge now , so that's going to be fun . And I would say with the Spanish speaking , watch out , they multiply . We're doing so many Spanish speaking churches all over and we just can't afford it . But we feel like God's saying hey , just say yes , hey , give us a leadership tip from the man , do you ?

Marlon Mincks 24:59

have something from .

J.D. Pearring 24:59

Dusty Baker's .

Marlon Mincks 25:03

Yeah , actually , I'll give you a sports analogy . Okay , yeah actually I'll give you a sports analogy , okay . So , um , you know the uh trying to think who was a quarterback in chicago here about three , four years ago .

J.D. Pearring 25:17

He was from denver . Um , oh , I know what you're talking about . Not for that before that , but yeah before that the guy that moved in northern idaho and yes yes .

Marlon Mincks 25:24

You know , the big knock on him was that he didn't look like everybody else , and I think in leadership , what you got to do is find your stride . My stride has always been to watch , listen , ask questions and then move forward , rather than this is what I'm going to do . I see so many people have an agenda before they ever get up to the plate , right , and so if you're playing baseball , it's knowing that pitcher , it's hearing from other people hey , how did you bat against this guy ? What is this stuff like ? All of those things are preparation for the decisions you're going to make , and I think the longer you can do that , especially as a new leader , the more you're going to make . And I think the longer you can do that , especially as a new leader , the more you're going to have in your arsenal as you get farther into the game and are leading people .

Marlon Mincks 26:17

I still make decisions . I go , oh , that's something JD taught me or that's something someone else taught me . I still remember those things . That's where I got them . I'm a byproduct of everyone else's leadership around me , and I'm not afraid to say that I don't need people to look at me as if I'm something amazing . I just want to have fun with people , learn with people and then throw some touchdowns . You know and so listen , learn from others and slow down and wait for your day to throw a touchdown . It doesn't have to come on the first play of the game .

J.D. Pearring 26:57

That's great , great stuff . Hey , let me end with the whole Dusty Baker thing . Yeah , at that time when we were working , I think he was , he was managing the giants and then he went on to the cubs and you're a big cubs fan , but we would joke that , uh , the giants had a center fielder , marvin bernard , and he couldn't hit and he couldn't steal and he was a bad fielder and the the press would say he's over 32 , why are you playing him ? And he would just say , well , he's due . Yeah , he's been thrown out trying to steal a second eight times in a row . Why do you keep sending him ? And would say , well , he's due .

J.D. Pearring 27:34

You know , um , and the thing I think about just kind of hit me looking at you here , talking to you is that's how we should be treating people , you know , instead of just throwing them on the , the trash heap . Everybody's got the potential in them and maybe they shouldn't be playing center field and leading off and stealing bases . But that optimism of , hey , god's got something good for every person out there , every leader , like you said , is going to have his day .

Marlon Mincks 28:03

So thanks for your impact on my life .

J.D. Pearring 28:05

Like I said , I I talk about how do you find leaders ? You just look for Marlon .

Marlon Mincks 28:10

Yeah .

J.D. Pearring 28:12

He's the . You know , when Paul and Barnabas broke up , barnabas took , he took John Mark . And it says and Paul chose Silas . And I'm thinking who's Silas ? Well , silas was Marlon , he was just right there . Oh , there he is .

Marlon Mincks 28:31

Right .

J.D. Pearring 28:32

Well , hey , thanks for being on , thanks for all you do . I'm really looking forward to seeing God continue to use you and use Converge and use us together . So , absolutely , thanks a ton , you bet . Have a great day .

None 28:48

Thanks for joining the Leading Conversations podcast . We hope that you found it both helpful and encouraging . At Excel Leadership Network , our focus is on the church planter rather than the church . If you'd like to find out more about us , visit our webpage at excelnetworkorg . Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes . See you next time with another leading conversation .