Announcer: 0:06

Welcome to the Leading Conversations podcast sponsored by the Excel Leadership Network. On each episode, jd Paring will have conversations with church planting pastors and leaders from around the country. You can learn more about how to connect with Excel at the end of this podcast. Let's join JD now and listen in on this leading conversation.

J.D. Pearring: 0:30

Well, welcome to another leading conversation with Excel Leadership Network, and today we have the great Mike Skor with us from Arizona. Mike, thank you for taking the time to be on our podcast.

Mike Skor: 0:44

Thanks, JD. It's great to be here. I'm looking forward to our time together.

J.D. Pearring: 0:49

Yeah, and where in Arizona exactly are you at the moment?

Mike Skor: 0:53

I'm in Queen Creek which is one of the suburbs of Phoenix, so kind of southeast Phoenix, east of Gilbert, south of Mesa, if people kind of know where that is.

J.D. Pearring: 1:06

Now, isn't that like on the eastern edge?

Mike Skor: 1:09

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of the growth eastern edge, almost to New Mexico, not quite but yeah, and the temperature today is it it is wonderful today. You know, last week it was pretty warm, but today, right now, it's like almost 60. It's just perfect. So all the windows in the house are open and I actually thought about sitting out on the patio for our conversation, but yeah, Well, good for you.

J.D. Pearring: 1:42

We're a little bit jealous. So, hey, tell us about your upbringing, uh, what it was like growing up, how you came to christ, all that yeah, as I think with so many people, you know there's so much to the story.

Mike Skor: 1:54

But I grew up in a christian home. Both my parents were believers. They met at a christian college in min, Minnesota, and out of that I was born in Minnesota, went to a church there and at a very young age was actually at a Sunday school kind of puppet ministry thing. I accepted Jesus. My mom insists that she led me to the Lord a year or two before that, but I don't remember it, so she doesn't get credit for it. But I in fact I still have letters on the shelf right above my head right now from the pastor telling my parents about my decision to come to know Jesus.

Mike Skor: 2:39

And it was that just started me on a journey where I had so many people pouring into my life. That just started me on a journey where I had so many people pouring into my life my grandmother. I spent a lot of my Friday nights with my grandmother because of my parents' work schedule and she was a discipler and teacher extraordinaire, so she taught me to memorize scripture and things at an early age. I felt to call the ministry at a very early age through a series of things and it was affirmed and confirmed multiple times. Of course I think, like with so many who kind of grew up in the church in the 80s, for me, at least in my part of the world, a youth camp was vital, and so youth camps were key kinds of transitional moments and decision moments and affirming moments for me, where I learned what it looked like to pray and learned what it looked like to share my faith and some surrender moments. You know I'm still stuck on the puppet ministry.

Mike Skor: 3:39

That was the time period back in the 70s.

J.D. Pearring: 3:41

you know it's amazing what God uses. Yeah, and on this podcast we've had a number of people who just come up with just the create backyard Bible clubs, puppet ministry, ventriloquist ministry, yeah. So anyway, you grew up. Talk a little bit about the camp experiences that you had.

Mike Skor: 4:06

Yeah.

Mike Skor: 4:06

So we went to this beautiful camp in the Rocky Mountains just outside of Yellowstone National Park, so you couldn't get a much prettier spot and it wasn't a huge camp.

Mike Skor: 4:19

There's just a few hundred kids led by pastors, kind of in the network that we were in, and there were just some unbelievable surrender moments for me kids and led by pastors, kind of in the network that we are in, and there were just some unbelievable surrender moments for me in the movement that I'm part of, which is a holiness movement. You know we would call them kind of sanctification moments of those moments of surrendering different parts of my life and saying yes to the Lord and those were some key altar moments and then being able to pray for friends and seeing the Lord answer those prayers. That's really where I got my first heart for lost people, I think is inviting friends to join me at camp and praying for them and watching God answer those prayers as they surrendered their life to Jesus and then seeing their life and their family's life, because many were unchurched and their family's life changed. So those were really key formative moments for ministry later on and really began to break my heart for people who need Jesus.

J.D. Pearring: 5:22

Well, I'm amazed at the number of people who were drawn to Jesus or even drawn to ministry through camps. It's amazing. I would say it's probably close to 50% of the people who come on this podcast, and that was a big step for me as well, just kind of making a commitment. But I also realized that that is not something that we're doing much anymore. Camps have kind of gone by the wayside. Our schedules are so packed. We need those two, three, five days away. We're not taking them.

Mike Skor: 6:00

Yeah, and then there's the expense side of it. That's just reality. That's killing it because it's expensive. There's liability. There's all little bit more of a formal study where we can track the number of people who felt a call to ministry, so kind of the surge up and down based on when we've emphasized camps and youth conferences for teenagers and young adults in young adults and when we've emphasized those, we've seen significant rises in people saying yes to Jesus, obviously, and calls to ministry. And when we've walked away from those, like in more recent years, we have these huge leadership gaps. It's like why aren't people saying yes to Jesus? And part of it is we aren't giving them the opportunity and cultivating a place and space. I think is a key word Place and space for them to really listen.

J.D. Pearring: 7:12

Yes, I agree totally and I also think we've gotten away from just the personal asking people, or even Sunday at church.

Mike Skor: 7:22

Yeah.

J.D. Pearring: 7:24

You know there's an invitation to commit your life to Christ, or an invitation to, you know, step up your ministry involvement or maybe even go into full-time ministry. So you said you had a bunch of people pour their lives into you. As a kid, were people saying, mike, you're going to be the next pastor, are you going to do this? Yeah, there was some of that.

Mike Skor: 7:47

You know my grandmother of course, grandmas always believe in their grandkids, right but she had those things. I had multiple teachers, some Christian teachers in a public high school who would speak into my life and affirm just kind of a teaching gift and some of those things and some creative gifts, and then pastors and leaders and counselors and friends. The list could go on and on and on. The list could go on and on and on. Where those became important, when I began to look back during difficult times to go okay, this was affirmed, don't give up. During the times of dark. What the Lord told me, you know when, when there was strong light, I think, was what my mom used to say.

J.D. Pearring: 8:30

But yeah, Did you have a period of straying or rebellion at all in your junior senior high years? Not so much.

Mike Skor: 8:40

Well, yeah, I mean there was definitely some in middle school, high school, there was some exploration. I had friends who I was like I just kind of want to know what they're experiencing. So there was definitely some of those things know what they're experiencing. So there is definitely some of those things. Not so much rebellion, but I went through a significant time of doubt, actually while I was studying for ministry, doing my undergraduate work, and just went on this journey for about a year and a half of for me it was a journey into apologetics. What are the proofs? What is this? Because I'm a kind of a cerebral person and really got down to brass tacks of the proofs for Christianity, looking at other religions, and so it wasn't so much rebellion, but I needed to make what really was my faith, but I needed to make it even more my faith, kind of separating me from my parents and my growing up years.

J.D. Pearring: 9:43

Now, where were you?

Mike Skor: 9:43

at college I went to a little college in Oklahoma called at the time it was Bartlesville Wesleyan College. Now it's Oklahoma Wesleyan University. That's where I did my undergraduate work.

J.D. Pearring: 9:55

Bartles and James. It's actually Bartlesville, Is that what it was?

Mike Skor: 9:58

It's actually Bartlesville, oklahoma is the home of Phillips 66, phillips Petroleum, oh, okay, yeah, and in fact Phillips Mansion is there, so not many people know that, but that's kind of what they're famous for, hey, in a nutshell, describe what is a Wesleyan.

Mike Skor: 10:16

A Wesleyan really, in a nutshell, is you know, we're part of the holiness movement, and the holiness movement really is saying you know, yes, we're forgiven of sin, but God, when we begin a relationship with him, we believe that he continues to transform us and helps us to become holy. It has its roots back in, of course, john Wesley, and strong on discipleship, strong on working in our communities and strong on reaching lost people.

J.D. Pearring: 10:51

Okay, good, good, good. So you're at college in Oklahoma. Then what happened?

Mike Skor: 10:57

Well, I thought I was going on the seminary, but the Lord took me on a right turn and said I don't want you to go to seminary yet, which was very disappointing to me because, again, I'm cerebral, I kind of like school and took me to a little church in southwestern Kansas as flat as can be the land is out there, you can actually see the curvature of the earth. But worked for a single just out of college, worked for a guy there who's just a consummate shepherd and that's where he wrote, because shepherding is not natural for me. Mercy is not in my spiritual gifts, but he taught me how to shepherd. Also met my wife there.

Mike Skor: 11:40

She was hired on as a ministry intern and it was a total setup. The only office space available was in my office, which wasn't true, but that's what they told everybody. So they put her in my office. I was her supervisor and, very long story short, we got married sometime later and so from there served in that church, served as a teaching pastor in a church and small groups pastor church in Michigan. From there was called to help plant a church in Sacramento, California, where we were for 10 years.

J.D. Pearring: 12:17

How was that? Tell us about that experience.

Mike Skor: 12:19

We loved it.

Mike Skor: 12:20

I fought it. I'll just be real honest I fought it. So the church we were at in West Michigan was a fairly recent church plant by the time we'd gotten there, but it had grown to nearly 1,000 people. So to leave that and to plant a church with two of our best friends with and those who are church planters know this no promise of a salary, no promise of income. We're moving from Michigan to California and California is very proud of its houses, charges a lot for them, and we just had our firstborn child.

Mike Skor: 12:56

So there was a lot of fear in it. We actually had conversations for a year ahead of time saying no, no, no, because our ministry and things were just so successful. And then the Lord really got a hold of our heart and we went to visit and we got on the plane afterwards and we said, you know, to say no to this would be disobedience. And so it was a total act of obedience and it transformed everything. We loved it.

Mike Skor: 13:28

We started in a little elementary school, eventually moved to the high school and just saw so many people come to know Jesus over the 10 years that we were there, planned to be there the rest of our lives. But, of course, in about 2008, 2009, the recession hit and a lot of our people moved out of state, and so we, like so many churches, had to make some adjustments there. And it was out of that that my buddy and I who, you know, we were kind of the team leading the church we'd laid off a lot of the staff looked at each other and said we can't afford the both of us, and so, since I was in charge of staff, I laid myself off, and that was one of the hardest ones. You know, we were not sure where we were going. That was one of the hardest ones.

Mike Skor: 14:16

You know, we were not sure where we were going, and that's where the Lord led us from California to North Dakota, you know, to go from California to North Dakota that's either God or you aren't smart One of the two and we moved to the oil fields of North Dakota where we were for 12 years and saw a fantastic church there in the middle of an oil boom Grow from, you know, a few hundred to well over a thousand and just hundreds and hundreds of people who had never experienced Jesus and not familiar with the church. Many of them meet Jesus during that time. So it was a real formative time During that time in North Dakota. Then, because I had a heart for church planting, we planted several churches out of that during that time as well okay, how is north dakota just as a place to live, you know?

Mike Skor: 15:05

it. The weather, the weather is awful. There's just no, no way to get around it. During the winter there are long periods where it is cold and I mean like negative 40 cold. It's. Actually when you look at some of the, you know the latitude, longitude, you know it's further north than even parts of Alaska and parts of Canada. So it was almost into Canada, almost into Montana. So it's awful. The summer was beautiful. The people are incredible and that's where we loved it. We loved the city we were in. We moved to the city in the middle of an oil boom. It was about 10,000. Within the space of a year and a half it was over 40,000. So it just exploded during that time and just walked alongside of so many people. And when you see lives change and we're able to walk in and out of story after story after story after story, I wouldn't trade that for the world. I'd live anywhere in the world, um for that period of time.

Mike Skor: 16:11

So we we thoroughly enjoyed it. And now, you know, now we're in arizona. We, if we're honest, we don't miss the weather, um, but we do miss the people, miss the people tremendously.

J.D. Pearring: 16:22

Well, how do you get to Queen Creek from North Dakota?

Mike Skor: 16:29

So this was another act of obedience. I was lead pastor and I got basically a phone call that our network leader in our movement it's called the superintendent of what's the Pacific Southwest, which is California, arizona, nevada and Hawaii 60 to 70 churches was retiring and they were looking for a new network leader. I had no interest in it whatsoever but again, it was an act of obedience for us of we just feel like we were prepared for this. This is where God wants us for a time, and to come alongside of other churches to remind them that lost people matter and to help churches come together and plant churches. And so we've given our lives to this and moved down here and stepped into this role.

J.D. Pearring: 17:22

What was the critical? You know, maybe last straw that said, yeah, we need to do this, we need to move into this type of ministry. What was that?

Mike Skor: 17:34

You know, I think the Lord prepared us for it For about a year beforehand.

Mike Skor: 17:38

We felt something stirring in us, not necessarily to move, we thought it was something stirring, something for the next season in our church.

Mike Skor: 17:47

So there is this season, this sense of preparation that a few of our close friends were kind of sensing for us too. So that was the beginning of it. And then we have a few people that we ask who we expect to speak into our lives. And they began to speak into our lives saying I think there may be something for this next. You know five, 10, 15 years for you, you need to listen. So we just started listening and then when the call came, it was from a couple of people who we respect greatly and highly, who we said we just need to listen. And as we look back we could see the path that the Lord had taken us on just equipped us. So now we're working with anywhere from house churches to mega churches, the mega churches, and we've been involved in the leadership on both ends of the spectrum and can help and come alongside and encourage people on all parts of the spectrum. So it's just we were prepared for it, I think.

J.D. Pearring: 18:55

And now your title is what's your title?

Mike Skor: 19:00

You know, it's one of these titles I even hesitate to say because it's kind of a mouthful it's District Superintendent of the Pacific Southwest District of the Wesleyan Church. I like to say you know, like a friend of mine says, I'm the chief towel carrier for as many leaders who lead local churches in our region as possible. You know, I just like to encourage and help and cheer on and coach pastors and churches.

J.D. Pearring: 19:25

Okay, great, so you're there in Queen Creek. It's been a couple of years now Year and a half Year and a half year and a half and 60 to 70 churches Yep, how has that shift been for you?

Mike Skor: 19:41

It has been much more dramatic and challenging than I expected it to be.

Mike Skor: 19:46

I'm a local church pastor at heart, still am, and we love and we miss the local church which allows us to lean into and come alongside of pastors.

Mike Skor: 19:58

So not having that, not having even for me a staff outside my door you know I walk outside the door of my office and it's a cat and my wife you know so I miss that, even as an introvert. There's that, there's a lot of travel involved, which we love, but it's just, you know, in a local church there are some rhythms and just practically speaking, there's not a lot of rhythm to this. And then coming alongside of and helping pastors, we absolutely love. But working with pastors is also a little bit like another level of herding cats because we as pastors I'll put myself in the same category we're leaders and as leaders we're pretty sure some, we're pretty sure we're right 90% of the time. So coming alongside of pastors and coaching and helping and challenging and kicking in the tail here and there, it's a whole different kind of rhythm that's been hard to get used to. Do you have a home church of rhythm? That's been hard to get used to.

J.D. Pearring: 21:05

Do you have a home church?

Mike Skor: 21:08

We do, we do, we aren't there a lot. So we have a church in Scottsdale, so here in the Phoenix area, led by a wonderful couple that we go to, and then we just part of our team just planted a church in Gilbert, a little bit closer to our house, that, as of the time we're recording this, is six weeks old. They just had their sixth Sunday last week and so that probably is a little bit closer to home and we'll be able to be involved in some small groups and things. But, truth be told, because we're coaching and working in churches, we're probably only there once every six to eight weeks and that's challenging. We need you know how long have I preached and taught that you need a local church, and I'm no exception to that. We're no exceptions to that. So we're trying to figure that out.

J.D. Pearring: 22:02

Now, when I met you, I remember you said, yeah, we have 66 churches and I have a vision to plant some more. And you mentioned your goal and I was just I was a little surprised. Like 66, 67 churches, I think I know what the next goal should be, but yours was different than that. Talk about that. Yeah, and yours was different than that. Talk about that.

Mike Skor: 22:23

Yeah. So one of the first things we did is we looked into the research and over the four states that we have, according to statistics, there's about 33 million people who we would say are spiritually lost. It was like we know we need more locations and we want to do our part. So 66. I had a number two and it probably would be very similar to your number and I'm like, okay, I think that's our next goal.

Mike Skor: 22:48

And I was sitting in church one morning and just felt the Holy Spirit say very, very clearly that's not big enough. And I thought it was plenty big. I'll be real honest, it was still bigger than what I knew I could do. And I began to wrestle and pray through that and it was almost a burning bush moment for me to say, no, we need to aim for 250 churches, locations across these four states Now. That's churches of all shapes and sizes, from house churches to medium-sized churches, small churches to large churches, and so you know there's a lot of it's a big tent. And then our first step beyond that was we just don't have enough leaders for that.

Mike Skor: 23:40

So then our next goal has been to, in the next five years, just to begin to get us down the road to raise up a hundred new leaders from within our existing churches, and we're actually with God's help, we've seen tremendous movement on that, even in the last year because I think you said it earlier so many churches don't even teach on a call to ministry or give an invitation for people to say yes to a call to ministry.

Mike Skor: 24:10

So we just made the simple challenge just once a year, once a year, teach on a call to ministry and give an invitation for people to say yes. And we saw this last year and the final numbers aren't in yet, but I'm going to guess we're going to be at least five to ten times any previous year's numbers of people saying yes to calls to ministry, and so that's going to be the key for us moving forward. But it's a huge goal and I think it's probably kind of a stupid huge goal, but it's the goal that we're aiming for and we're going to go after and if we don't make it, okay, we don't make it, but we're going to give our all to get as close to it as we possibly can.

J.D. Pearring: 24:59

Well, I'm pretty familiar with stupid huge goals and I think often they're from god, because he's trying to stretch us beyond what we think. Yeah, uh and uh. Church planting is a big part of that, obviously. Um, just talk a little bit about what you're trying to do with church planting so we've got a few different things.

Mike Skor: 25:21

I mean, we've had just a tremendous year. This last year, my first year and a half we put about 15 churches somewhere in the process to plant a church and again trying to say you know, there are different kinds of churches for different contexts. So we have all different kinds of churches in that, from large capacity to small church capacity and just trying different things. But moving forward there's going to be a couple of keys. We've kind of divided our district into four strategic zones and we're actually five strategic zones. We're asking each zone for churches to come together and say these three churches, these four churches are going to come together and we're going to come together and be the parents to one or more churches in our area and what we talk about is church planting is the result of reaching lost people and discipleship.

Mike Skor: 26:27

Instead of trying to drive it and say you have to plant two or three churches, are you reaching lost people? Are you raising disciples? Are you developing leaders? If that's happening, then let's strategically plan to plant churches. It's not an afterthought, it's an intentional strategy, but it's not something that we're driving. We're saying this is the result of these three things, but we're going to intentionally plan for it to happen as we move forward. So we're looking for groups of churches and then we're also just praying for leaders we haven't met yet to join us. We haven't met yet to join us, and you've introduced us to some leaders who are from outside of our movement, who have joined our movement, and we're seeing some incredible things and partnership happen with those too. So we're just trying to build network partnerships as well, to say yes as often as we can, to reach as many people as we can.

J.D. Pearring: 27:23

Good stuff, good stuff. Hey, give us a leadership tip.

Mike Skor: 27:32

You know, I think, one of the leadership tips. It's interesting you say that I was just writing a lesson for something coming up and it's not original. With me, I couldn't tell you even where it came from. I should probably know, so I can give the person credit. But your tolerance for attention determines your potential for growth. Your tolerance for attention determines your potential for growth.

Mike Skor: 27:58

And really you know the illustration I use for that is a rubber band. What's the purpose of a rubber band? How do you know a rubber band is fulfilling its purpose? It's when it's under tension. If it's not under tension, it's not doing its job. And I'm convinced that we as leaders and as churches need to constantly not introduce bad tension, because there's good tension and bad tension. But we need to be bringers of tension and we need to lean into tension, because I know about all of us. When tension, when pressure, when pain happens, I look for the exit. But the greatest growth has always happened when I lean into moments and seasons and times of tension, whether the Lord brought them or whether they're the result of living in a broken world. He'll still redeem and grow me through it, and I think sometimes we need to bring that even to our local church, to our staff, to our leaders, is what's the tension point that we can introduce to help us grow?

J.D. Pearring: 29:09

Excellent, that is really good. I haven't heard that before. Give us a statement again about the tension.

Mike Skor: 29:16

Your tolerance for tension determines your potential for growth.

J.D. Pearring: 29:19

Your tolerance for tension determines your potential for growth.

Mike Skor: 29:24

Yeah, it's probably a better way to wordsmith that, but that just works for me.

J.D. Pearring: 29:29

Well, when you write the book on it, we'll buy it. Well, hey, I appreciate getting to know you. I appreciate your vision, what you're doing, I'm excited about the future and just seeing people come to Jesus. So that's the cool thing. Thanks for your time. Greet your wife, Kylie, for us, and we'll be working together in the future. I hope so. Thanks so much, Mike, for your time today.

Mike Skor: 29:58

Thank you. You have a great day you too.

Announcer: 30:49

Thanks for joining the Leading Conversations podcast. We hope that you found it both helpful and encouraging. At Excel Leadership Network, our focus is on the church planter rather than the church. If you'd like to find out more about us, visit our webpage at accelnetworkorg. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. See you next time with another leading conversation.