Announcer: 0:06

Welcome to the Leading Conversations podcast sponsored by the Excel Leadership Network. On each episode, jd Paring will have conversations with church planting pastors and leaders from around the country. You can learn more about how to connect with Excel at the end of this podcast. Let's join JD now and listen in on this leading conversation.

J.D. Pearring: 0:29

Well, welcome to another edition of the Leading Conversations podcast with Excel Leadership Network, and today we are thrilled to have the wonderful Renee Schlepper from Santa Cruz. Did I get it right? Yeah, that is perfect, thank you. Well, I will tell you Santa.

Rene Schlaepfer: 0:48

Cruz perfectly.

J.D. Pearring: 0:50

I want to tell you that we, just a month ago, finished the Flawed Follower series at our church. We stole your idea and your book and we have a teaching team and I think three of us did two or three sessions each on Peter and we referenced you and had little quotes from you and I don't think we got your name right or even close to right once.

Rene Schlaepfer: 1:16

I mean honestly, it's spelled so bizarrely it's S-C-H-L-A-E-P-F-E-R, and when most Americans see that weird combination of consonants and vowels, their brains just sort of short circuit. So I answer to literally everything it's Swiss. My parents were Swiss immigrants. That also explains the first name, rene. But I'm really glad that you guys did Flock Follower. I'm so excited about that. It's the series on Simon Peter and it's been picked up by so many different churches all around and I'm just really, really grateful for that.

J.D. Pearring: 1:55

That is yeah, it's really good. Is it flawedfollowerorg? Where you can get it?

Rene Schlaepfer: 2:01

Flawedfollowercom and it's also on Amazon and all of the other things and it's in Kindle and Audible and print versions and it's designed as a seven-week sermon-based church small group series with videos filmed 12-minute videos filmed on site to kind of serve as group discussion starters, and we provide for free sermon outlines and sermon manuscripts and slides and everything that churches can adjust, you know, or use as they want to, and it's been a lot of fun to see that spread.

J.D. Pearring: 2:40

When's your next one? Are you going to do a series on King Kamehameha do Hawaii?

Rene Schlaepfer: 2:48

I don't know, we haven't decided yet. We're sort of thinking about Moses because we've done I call these travel adventure Bible studies. My wife runs our church bookstore here and she told me, renee, 90% of the people buying books are women, which is great. But I thought, why aren't the men reading the Bible and reading Bible studies and good, thoughtful books about the Bible? And part of it was when I looked at what was available.

Rene Schlaepfer: 3:20

A lot of the Bible studies in my opinion maybe seemed a little bit feminine in their styling, and I know that can sound stereotypical. But I think what subtly happens is publishers realize that their primary demographic buying the books are women and so they begin designing in ways that are appealing to that demographic, naturally, as anybody would do. But of course that's a vicious circle because then you end up appealing less to men. So I thought well, you know, I'm a man, I don't know what most men like, but I like to talk about travel and archaeology and adventure and I love. I love my ears always perked up at a sermon when somebody talks about Bible, history and and the archaeological evidence for something. And so I thought well, why don't we do a series of Bible studies that are like that where I just go over and walk in the footsteps of of Bible characters.

Rene Schlaepfer: 4:18

We've seen that from time to time when it comes to Jesus and I did one for Jesus Christ, that from time to time when it comes to Jesus and I did one for Jesus Christ, but we did one for David called Chasing David, flawed Follower for Peter the Seven Going to the Sites of the Seven Churches, and Pat Moss of the Book of Revelation Acts, odyssey, where we went through all of the kind of follow up, the whole map of the book of acts, so that these have been a lot of fun and I've been really gratified that not only whole churches have been picking them up but they've been. They've proven to be uh successful when it comes to men wanting to learn more about scripture, so I'm grateful for that. Thanks for letting me plug that, by the way, I don't get anything from these books, I just do them as part of my job here at the church. So 100% of the money goes back to support the book arm of Twin Lakes Church here in Santa Cruz.

J.D. Pearring: 5:15

Well, good. So how do I get my books in your bookstore? Because we give any proceeds to church planting?

Rene Schlaepfer: 5:22

Oh, that's cool, so just shoot me an email, okay, oh, that's cool, so just shoot me an email, okay, yeah, I'll send them.

J.D. Pearring: 5:27

Mine are all on site shot from Elk Grove, california, the home office, awesome, and you don't have to look at me during them, so hey, I'd love to.

Rene Schlaepfer: 5:41

No, I'd love to see them and please email me about those.

J.D. Pearring: 5:45

I can just send you some and I'll just give them to you and you can do whatever you want with them.

Rene Schlaepfer: 5:50

That would be awesome.

J.D. Pearring: 5:51

Hey, tell us your story. Tell us how you came to Christ, growing up and all that?

Rene Schlaepfer: 5:56

Yeah, thanks for asking. I love listening to all these different stories that you have. They're all so different, so interesting, All these different stories that you have. They're all so different, so interesting. Well, as I mentioned earlier, my family were all Swiss immigrants. I'm the first person for centuries on either side ofmonth au pair arrangement, and my father was studying architecture at UC Berkeley and they met at a Swiss dance club in San Francisco and got married. My mother was not a Christian. She was raised by atheists in Switzerland.

J.D. Pearring: 6:46

My father was you're not going to believe this, but most of the guys on this their parents met at a Swiss dance.

Rene Schlaepfer: 6:52

It's just such an old story it's very common tale, as old as time. So yeah, and so they decided to settle down and get married here, while he was launching his career in architecture. They had two little kids and when I was a month shy of four years old and my sister was just a baby, my dad got cancer and he died very. He declined very rapidly. He declined very rapidly and then my mother was suddenly not a citizen, you know, here in the States, didn't know the language very well. She, really her closest friends were other Swiss immigrants in the Bay Area and she suddenly found herself living under the poverty line. We, you know, she didn't really have a lot of avenues to make money and she very seriously thought about moving back to Switzerland. Her family was wooing her back, but there was one factor that kept her here in the States. You know what it was.

J.D. Pearring: 7:59

The San Francisco Giants? No, I don't know what it was.

Rene Schlaepfer: 8:02

Well, it was the fact that she had just become a believer and and she thought, rightly, that the religious environment in Switzerland was a little dead, you know not not as fertile as it was here in the States, and she really wanted to grow in her faith and raise her kids in the faith, the States. And she really wanted to grow in her faith and raise her kids in the faith, and so she stayed here and it was many years of of living in poverty and um dealing with that. It's interesting because when grief happens to you when you're four, it really becomes a constant companion. I loved about a year ago you had Steve Clifford on and he talked about the grief that he went through following the death of his son and he said it's like a dog that's always with you and sometimes the dog behaves and sometimes all of a sudden the dog misbehaves, but it's always there and it's interesting. That is exactly what it's like, even for little kids.

J.D. Pearring: 9:01

When you remember, do you remember the events then?

Rene Schlaepfer: 9:07

Yeah, I do, and I have memories of my father uh, you know the kind of things that a four-year-old would remember. I remember one time I ran across the street in our neighborhood and he spanked me and, uh, one time I wanted to shave, he was shaving, and then the he. He showed me he bought me a junior shaver kit, a little toy shaving kit with toy shaving lotion and so on. And so every morning I stood next to him and pretended to shave. And I remember one time it snowed in San Jose that winter that he died. He died in February and he made a little tiny snowman for me and he stuck it in the freezer. And one time, after he died, my mom opened the freezer and I saw the snowman in there and I thought to myself at four years old that a little fragile snowman outlived my father and that image just was lodged in my brain.

J.D. Pearring: 10:04

Oh, my goodness.

Rene Schlaepfer: 10:05

Yeah.

Rene Schlaepfer: 10:06

And so you start to think about life, you start to think about death, you start to think about what really matters really early on.

Rene Schlaepfer: 10:13

I mean, I'm asking all these questions as a little kid. And my mom said, well, you know dad's in heaven. And I said, how do you go to heaven? And so when I was five, I very sincerely prayed to receive Christ and uh, though I questioned it and went back and forth on that commitment at times that ultimately I knew that was really the bedrock for my life. But the but, the ensuing years, you know, without a father, it was. It's interesting how they impact you.

Rene Schlaepfer: 10:46

When I was listening to some of your previous podcasts and it dredged up some memories for me because I knew you were going to ask me these questions that I haven't really thought of in a while to this depth. But you go through life learning. The good side is. I saw my mom's very simple faith that the Lord would provide. She said that all the time in her thick Swiss accent the Lord will provide, the Lord will provide, and I saw that happen. I mean, we didn't have enough money really to buy new clothes or really even to provide for all the food our family needed. One time we were out of milk and I remember she gathered me and my little sister in the kitchen and she told us you know, in Swiss German we are out of milk and now we must pray for milk. And even as a kid I'm like is this how it works? Do you just pray for milk? I don't know about this. And we held hands in a little three-person circle and she prayed that God would provide milk. And the next morning in paper bags on our front porch was some I don't know if you remember that old Milkman powdered milk that they used to make the brand was Milkman and it was on our front porch. Probably some neighbor tried it because it was cheaper and their kids didn't like it. So they knew we were poor. So they put it on our front porch anonymously and I remember just my jaw dropping. We just prayed for milk last night and now it's on our front porch and somebody you know answered the prompting of God and was the answer to a widow's prayer.

Rene Schlaepfer: 12:32

And then another time, when I was in high school I think high school, yeah, I, I needed some new shoes. I just had one pair of shoes. They were like dress shoes and the soles were flapping off and, and you know, just completely unfashionable. And and so, mom is like you need new shoes, be prepared for new shoes. And again the next day, on our front porch were brand new tennis shoes that were my size and they were the ugliest puke green color I'd ever seen. And I knew what had happened. Some parent found these shoes for their kid and their kid just disavowed them, and so they end up on the poor kid's front porch and I told my mom I am not wearing those, I'm going to be a laughingstock, they're clown shoes. And she looked at me and very persuasively said you will wear them. So I went to school wearing shoes and uh, and unexpectedly, like all the kids were like cool shoes. Where'd you get the shoes? It was the one and only time in my life I've ever been on the leading edge of fashion.

J.D. Pearring: 13:39

And, uh, I set the trend, apparently.

Rene Schlaepfer: 13:42

So. So there were good things like that where I saw mom's simple faith and answers to prayer and both my sister and I say we would never want to live through losing our father. We would never want to have that again and we would always want to have our father with us. However, going through that as little children for both of us really solidified our faith and both of us are still walking with the Lord. And she's like how could I not, after seeing what I saw and experience, experiencing what I experienced, and uh, and our church became a real formative part of our lives. But then there was the negative part. I mean, uh, sadly, uh, I think that, uh, that young boys that are fatherless do become prey for sexual predators who groom them. And I was certainly that as well, as I've shared with our church and in other settings was sexually molested by a piano teacher who had groomed me for that and and and. So there was that too, and my response to that was just absolute rage and, uh, vengeance and you know, nobody believed me. They pulled.

Rene Schlaepfer: 14:54

They pulled me out of the piano lessons, but nobody believed that it happened really really so, yeah, you know, it's just the classic thing and I I don't blame them, especially not in the 60s, early 70s. Whenever that happened, it was well, let's see, I was about 10, so that would have been maybe 1971, 9 or 10, 70, 71, but there wasn't a lot of education about that and so they protected me by pulling me out of the you know, piano lessons.

J.D. Pearring: 15:21

But and that was not spoken of in those days.

Rene Schlaepfer: 15:24

No, no, and that was just like. Well, you know, we're that's, that is protection. We're not going to put you in that situation again. But but they confronted the piano teacher. He denied it, and so they didn't know who to believe. Well, you know, now we know that you believe the, the victims, but but nobody believed me.

Rene Schlaepfer: 15:43

So that made me mad at authority figures, mad at the world and especially mad at this particular person. I would fantasize about just ripping him apart piece by piece. And that low-level anger followed me into my ministry here at one lakes church before I was driving along the frontage road that leads to our house and I was fantasizing again about just literally carving this man to pieces. And I just heard a voice. Well, I didn't hear a voice, but it was like a nudge from the spirit, and I never talk about this kind of stuff because I feel like people talk about.

Rene Schlaepfer: 16:25

Well, I heard the Lord say way too often when really it was just some kind of an urge that they had. But it was as if the Holy Spirit told me very clearly and the words were that's enough, that's enough, you know. You fantasized about that vengeance long enough. Now you can stop put away childish things. Vengeance is mine, says the Lord. You can stop now. And I was hammering on the dashboard no, I kind of imagined that he's not getting away with anything because I'm still furious. And then the Holy Spirit was like no, it's just destroying your peace of mind. So I got this and I let it go and I just felt so free. It was a remarkable experience, kind of a light switch flipped for me, that's an amazing story of forgiveness that I mean.

J.D. Pearring: 17:23

thank you for sharing that, Rene. Sure, To me, the whole forgiveness, the letting go thing, we could change the world, you know, yeah, and I get it. I mean we hold on and you have every right to do that. Just thinking about the story of Joseph, you know.

Rene Schlaepfer: 17:44

Yeah.

J.D. Pearring: 17:45

He finally got to the point where he named his first born son. Hey, god, allowed me to forget, you know yeah well, you know.

Rene Schlaepfer: 17:52

I think that I I want to make clear I think that that justice should have been done back then and that if there is evidence that it should be pursued, uh, forgivenessgiveness doesn't mean you don't seek justice. But I didn't even know the man's name anymore. I didn't know how to track him down, so for me forgiveness really meant I have to trust that the Lord's got this.

J.D. Pearring: 18:19

I am sure he does.

Rene Schlaepfer: 18:21

Yeah.

J.D. Pearring: 18:22

His vengeance is longer and deeper and more just than ours.

Rene Schlaepfer: 18:28

Amen.

J.D. Pearring: 18:29

Thank you for sharing that.

Rene Schlaepfer: 18:30

Yeah, you bet. And then, yeah, I mean, I don't know how much you want me to go on, but when I was a teenager, my mom eventually she remarried a wonderful guy. My mom, eventually she remarried a wonderful guy, my stepfather, jet Turner. He was a missionary to Naples, italy, to the servicemen there when there was a naval base there. And then he came back and he was a pastor here in the States actually before and after that, but he had gone through a divorce and kind of got booted from ministry and decided to serve the Lord just as a, you know, not just but as a janitor, as a custodian at a local church, and then eventually got back into ministry very slowly, and he was the chaplain at the San Jose Rescue Mission and so I would go and see what was happening there. And I was a teenager and I was grappling with other truth claims and not knowing if this was really true. And my mom was teenager and I was grappling with other truth claims and not knowing if this was really true, and and and my mom was actually starting to get into more of a charismatic expression of faith and speaking in tongues and so on. So I would, I just was so confused and I prayed one time God, if you're real, I would love to know. However, you want to show that to me and I'll never forget this.

Rene Schlaepfer: 19:42

I was standing, I was a junior in high school. I was standing looking out my window and my bedroom at that time looked out on the street and all of a sudden I was just overwhelmed with a sense of god's presence and absolute, unconditional, infinite love that extended to the furthest reaches of the universe and all through time and to every single person I was seeing outside the window and to me. And it was the most incredible experience I've ever had of God's love. And since then there've been brief moments where I've touched up against, kind of the hem of his garment again, so to speak, but that moment was such a, such a time of of grace for me. I felt like the lord was saying yeah, I'm real, here's just a, here's just a, all the glimpse that you can bear. And I was just laughing and crying at the same time, and and I didn't speak in tongues or anything, but it was a profound experience that I couldn't explain.

Rene Schlaepfer: 20:48

But I knew then that there was reality behind all of the ideas of God, and that really was another formative instance for me. I used to not talk about it because I'm not in a tradition that I'm in a tradition that tends to be suspicious of that sort of mystical or charismatic experience. You know that's for Pentecostals and Catholics but so I almost like was was ashamed of it or felt like I should hide it. But now I'm just going to be honest. I mean, that is one of the formative spiritual experiences of my life. And then I went on to. Because of that I became really interested in studying theology and studying the Bible and so on, and I don't know why not everyone receives an experience like that, but it was profound.

J.D. Pearring: 21:41

Was it kind of a spark to pursue ministry as well?

Rene Schlaepfer: 21:46

Well, a spark to pursue study, this theology, just on my, you know, even as a high school student, just kind of as a hobby, reading theology, reading Christian books. But no, I didn't want to go into the ministry, I wanted to go into broadcasting and and that's what I did for uh 15 years. That was my career and uh, that's how I put myself through school and grad school.

J.D. Pearring: 22:15

Where were you doing the, the broadcast stuff?

Rene Schlaepfer: 22:19

Yeah, so that was uh was various stations here in the Bay Area and also up in Tahoe and over in Reno and in Switzerland briefly, and Portland Oregon as well.

J.D. Pearring: 22:33

Yeah, Wow, can you give us your best rock and roll DJ?

Rene Schlaepfer: 22:47

Well, I'll tell you, when I was on rock stations I thought, well, I can't go on the air with Rene Schlepper for obvious reasons, right? So I thought, okay, I gotta have an air name. That's a good rock and roll top 40 air name. And so I was studying theology and everything, and so everything was a word study to me at the time. And so the first name I chose was Ben, which in Hebrew means son of, and the last name Stone, as in Christ the cornerstone or the rock of ages. Because that's my position in Christ. I'm an adopted Ben, son of the rock of ages. I'm a joint heir with Christ the Cornerstone. I am a Ben Stone. So I thought that is such a cool name. Unlike Rene, it's masculine. Unlike Schlepper, stone is very easy for Americans to read and pronounce. So I thought, man, that's a good one, and I might even change my name legally to this, because my whole life I was mocked for both my first and last name and I thought that's un-mockable. No one can ever make fun of that name or ever mispronounce it. So that was it. Magic 107 with Ben Stone, the top 10 of 10. Tonight Coming in at number 10, it's the police, and every breath, she takes on Magic 107. That's great.

Rene Schlaepfer: 24:09

Well, my first request caller after I went on the air as Ben Stone, was about a junior high age guy and I could tell he was listening to the radio station in the background and his friends were all laughing in the background and I go Magic 107. And he says, oh yeah, is this Ben Stone radio station in the background, and his friends were all laughing in the background and I could magic 107. And he says, oh yeah, is this Ben stone? I say yes, it is. And I'm thinking, you know, maybe he'll ask me whether my name is my actual name or an air name and I'll be able to explain my reasoning behind it and perhaps even lead him to Christ. And he goes well, me and my friends just want to know have you been stoned lately? Not to mention the initials. So it was, the whole thing was just a disaster, but I had to stick with it because the radio station had jingles and everything. But so everybody for years thought that my rock, you know, air name was ben stone because it was a drug reference every name.

J.D. Pearring: 25:07

You need to have some junior high. Yes, 13, 14 year old guy.

Rene Schlaepfer: 25:11

So you need to run it. Yes, you need to run it through the junior higher filter my great-grandfather changed our name.

J.D. Pearring: 25:19

He had a ring of pear trees in San Jose and he was just an entrepreneurial, uh, crazy guy. So he changed it to pairing, which is not really my favorite name, but at least at least that's the story I hear. So, um, I want you to change it to something a little cooler than that.

Rene Schlaepfer: 25:43

Yes, Well, I mean listen, my last name is Schlepper. So, I think that's pretty cool.

Rene Schlaepfer: 25:58

So, how did you get? How'd you get in into ministry from Magic 107? Yeah, well, I was in Portland at Magic 107, which was a top 40 station, and also going to Western Seminary and but I really was not going to Western to become a pastor Again, it was just like a hobby for me and I, my bachelor's was in broadcasting, my, my minor was journalism broadcast journalism and that's what I wanted to continue in. And I'd worked at one contemporary Christian music station and that whole format was on the rise with K-Love and everything. So I thought you know, I'll just get a master's in theology and I'll be really of use to these Christian radio stations and to my church, to these Christian radio stations and to my church.

Rene Schlaepfer: 26:47

But the longer I was in seminary, the more I saw these sort of little plaintive requests on the Western bulletin board from churches that were looking for pastors. Already then it didn't seem like there were enough and so I prayed and it's so funny how much this parallels Steve Clifford's story because he was in coaching and as I recall and it's so funny how much this parallels Steve Clifford's story because he was in coaching and as I recall Steve's story, he basically prayed God. I'll give you two years, two years in ministry, and he was like working in Young Life or something. And then I'm back into coaching and that's exactly what I said. I said, lord, you know what. I said, lord, you know what, if every good Christian man or woman devoted two years to ministry kind of like a Mormon thing then we'd all be okay. So I tell you what God, I'll give you two whole years, but God had to do it that way. He had to. I don't know selfish, that I would never have said I'm devoting my life to ministry. It had to come in two-year increments. So God's like okay, I'll call your bluff.

Rene Schlaepfer: 28:04

So I had been dating a woman at Western Seminary who was a year ahead of me. She was a TA to Dr Gary Brashears, who was a theology professor who's still there, who we all just adore and continue to adore, and I got to know her. Then we started dating and she became my wife. But before we got married she moved back home to San Diego and her church needed a youth pastor. The youth pastor had left and so she, you know, calls me up hey, the church needs a youth pastor. And you said that thing about, about being willing to give a couple of years to God, why don't you come down and be our youth pastor? And I'm like, shoot, you know my blood was being called.

Rene Schlaepfer: 28:41

But it was San Diego. So I'm like, well, you know, there's worse places to serve the Lord. It's just so shallow, so superficial. And so I go down there and and I, I I don't know why they hired me, I had no experience, I didn't know what I was doing.

Rene Schlaepfer: 28:58

But thank God, it was San Diego, because it was the glory days of youth specialties and Mike Iaconelli and all those guys were down there and youth specialties if you went to their offices in El Cajon you could get, basically for free, all these books that they had printed that had a little thing wrong with them, like a bent page or something. So I was getting all these YS resources for free and I got to know those guys and I'm, I'm so, I'm getting mentored by the top guys in the field. And, uh, and it's San Diego, where you can literally do something different with your youth group every day and never repeat yourself for a whole year. You can go camping on the beach, you can go to Magic Mountain, you can go to Disneyland, you can go to Tijuana to serve on a mission. It was just there's so much to do and you know, coach softball leagues and all that kind of stuff. So I had a ball.

Rene Schlaepfer: 29:55

And meanwhile I, after two years, I started applying to radio stations down there and for the first time in my life I wasn't getting any bites for my resume. I thought, how, why am I not able to get a job here? Well, it was the Lord, and and he was like no, I want you to stay in ministry for a while. And then Laurie said well, you know, I think you should be more than a youth pastor. I think you've got skills. Let's, let's think about teaching pastor. I'm like no, let's think about going back into broadcast.

Rene Schlaepfer: 30:29

And so I said I'll tell you what. If there's a church somewhere where we want to live and if they have a teaching pastor position and if they are open to me also working at a contemporary Christian music radio station, and if there's a CCM radio station in the area that will hire me, then I'll consider doing ministry. And she's like well, then you're never going to do ministry because those are a lot of conditions. And then a church in South Lake Tahoe that I'd been attending before called me and asked me to come as a teaching pastor and at the same time, a contemporary Christian music radio station in Nevada asked me to come and do morning drive and they were expanding. And Lori's like wow, this is unbelievable. God answered your prayers and I said well, I don't know, I need to pray about this a little while.

J.D. Pearring: 31:26

God answers your prayers, whether it's powdered milk or green shoes or Tahoe.

Rene Schlaepfer: 31:31

I don't know. So that was a blessing. And then we were up in Tahoe and doing that Wow. Well, how did you get to Santa Cruz? Wonderful ministry. It had been started actually way back in 1890 as a Baptist retreat center. And then they, shortly after that, about a year after that, they started a church. But the church was never successful and in fact for most of the 1920s it was completely shut down. The doors were padlocked. They didn't have any services for most of that decade. The doors were padlocked. They didn't have any anywhere for the first 13 years but they kept at it.

Rene Schlaepfer: 32:48

And then in 1943, roy Craft came to pastor the church and he was here for the next 47 years and the church really boomed under his leadership. They moved from a little beachside lot to a more expansive campus next to the community college in the middle of the county and he embarked on a building campaign and so many things happened under his leadership that were fantastic. And then, when he decided to retire after a long successful run, unfortunately the church experienced a bunch of very difficult moments after he left. Basically, try to think of anything bad that could happen in a church and that happened during those three years here at Twin Lakes and one of our employees sexually molested two young women rather, I would say two girls Pardon me, I want to correct myself and the church immediately reported it, as they should have. They followed all the correct protocols and absolutely cooperated with the sheriffs and really came alongside that family. And the molester is still in prison. That was more than 30 years ago now and, uh, and every time he comes up for parole the church organizes, you know uh, um, a protest really against that, uh, because of the damage that he did. But that was on the front page of the papers and I could go more into that story. But there was also a high-profile adulterous affair among leaders at the church. Then our head bookkeeper was arrested and convicted of felony embezzlement of church funds and went to prison for that, and I could go on and on on.

Rene Schlaepfer: 35:02

At one point the entire board resigned, the entire search committee resigned and the church split and more than half of the church actually left, uh, in short order. So it was, uh, very difficult. The church was in debt millions of dollars because of a building project. That I think was a good idea actually, but it wasn't the right time, especially with all those things happening and the loss of all the contributors, but it continued to be developed because there wasn't really anybody, uh, with the authority to pull the plug on it, and so money continued to be spent on that and uh, so there was a. There were a lot of problems Um, none of them, in my view, roy Kraft's fault, or or that generation of leadership, but you know, sadly, just just a combination of events led to all these things.

Rene Schlaepfer: 36:05

So I didn't know all those things when I first came on board, but found out about them eventually, and there's more than that. So when I came on, I was only 32 years old and I told them, I said you need somebody with way more experience than me, and the search committee was short with me. And they said well, why don't you let us decide what we want? And I suspect it was likely there at the last gas and uh, cause I really was not qualified to come in here, but I did something that that that was. I don't know why I did this exactly and I don't think everybody should do this, but I was so confused because it was clear that the church needed a new pastor and they had asked me to come and candidate, but I didn't really want to. And yet I sort of felt like maybe I should, but I really didn't want to.

Rene Schlaepfer: 37:17

And so I called a special meeting of the church membership up there in South Lake Tahoe and explained the situation.

Rene Schlaepfer: 37:25

And I just said listen, this is what's happening and I want you all to pray about this for a while and then we'll have another meeting and as a church we're going to decide whether or not to send me to Twin Lakes Church as kind of a missionary to Santa Cruz from our church. And I thought this is going to be a great way for me to weasel out of this, because nobody from our church is going to want to send me away. And so we had an open mic at the following meeting and person after person got up and said well, when you first raised that, I thought no way. And then the more I prayed about it, the more it just seemed like the Lord was saying yeah, we're okay, we got a great staff here, we're going to be doing okay, but Twin Lakes really needs help. So I think you should go. And my heart starts sinking as person after person is like, yeah, you should go, and uh. And so I went and that's how I got to Twin Lakes.

J.D. Pearring: 38:23

That's incredible. I had no idea and that was what 30 years ago.

Rene Schlaepfer: 38:30

Yeah, in November, november 1st, it'll be 31 years.

J.D. Pearring: 38:36

Man and give us a key to longevity. As a pastor, you've been 31, 30, 31 years. How?

Rene Schlaepfer: 38:48

do you hang in there? Well, and we've had a lot of ups and downs. I mean it's not like, yeah, I came in and you know trends were up. You know we've seen ebbs and flows and scandals and difficult things and and uh, and and revivals, you know.

Rene Schlaepfer: 39:05

Um, I would say that for a long time I sort of continued that mindset. That began as sort of a superficial offering to God I'll give you two years. And, uh, for a long time I kind of continued that. Yeah, I, I told my wife, I said we're here for two years. And for a long time I kind of continued that. Yeah, I told my wife, I said we're here for two years, I'm going to be the unintentional interim pastor, so let's just start doing the things that we think we should and set the stage for the next guy. And then after two years we thought, well, we should stay for another two years because we need to still do some work here. And then after four years we thought, well, two more years.

Rene Schlaepfer: 39:51

And I would say for the first 20 or 25 years of my ministry here, that was sort of the mindset, kind of like I'm re-upping for another two.

Rene Schlaepfer: 40:00

And I do think that that is part of the key. We're blessed to have longevity on our staff as well, and sometimes staff members are burned out or something depressed and they want to quit. And we always provide mental health services and pay for or subsidize counseling and so on, sabbaticals. But I also always say can you give me two more years, or can you give me one more year and after a year you can quit if you still want to. And I think that having a short-term commitment, imagining yourself as sort of under contract for another year or two, I think that really helps you get through the months where you're tempted to quit because you're like well, I kind of have made my mind up that I'm here till next December, so I'm just going to put my head down and keep working till then, but then I'm going to quit and what what has happened to me, you know over a dozen times is by the time it gets to that cycle, then I don't want to quit anymore, is that?

J.D. Pearring: 41:13

stupid. That's. That is uh, that is just really really wise. I mean, I have signed a number. For me it's the one-year contract with God. I always call it a player option that I can opt out, right, but the truth is it's always a club option. God's in charge of that. But I'm, yeah, if I was told, hey, you got to go there and stay forever, I can't do that. I mean, that's why church planting is I can do that. But I think that's just really wise of, if you're wired that way Some people are wired I want to move here and stay here the rest of my life. Great Right.

Rene Schlaepfer: 41:53

Yeah, totally, and different people are wired different ways.

Rene Schlaepfer: 41:55

Yeah, but I would say also you know one of the blessings of being there's many, many, many, many, many blessings of being in a ministry for a number of years, and one of them is you know, you do, you do see the ups and downs and you're not as freaked out when you have a year that's down in attendance or down in budget, because you've been through it before and you know that.

Rene Schlaepfer: 42:20

You know you need to communicate with the congregation, you need to be in prayer, you need to potentially make adjustments, but it's not going to be this way forever. And it's the same thing when there's a revival and there's growth. You know you can't project church growth at the 25% growth rate you're experiencing this year, because you're never going to grow by 25% for decades on end. You know these are seasons and I think that helps you enjoy the good times and last through the bad times, just because you know you've experienced it. And, um, there's so many rewards. I feel like a lot of pastors. They experience the two hard years, the two hard startup years of a church, over and over and over and over, and they don't get the blessing of getting past the two hard years, into the years that become easier and more joyful.

J.D. Pearring: 43:24

Because they don't stay. Yeah Well, hey, two last questions. Tell us what's going on now, because you had mentioned before we got into this, that things are going really well at the church, and then end with a leadership tip. You've given us a bunch, but one last leadership tip.

Rene Schlaepfer: 43:42

Well, I'll tell you we're seeing and I hesitate to say this because I know that it's not synchronous with what every other church is experiencing at this moment, although, again, I would say, hang in there, because I think that often, when we are faithful, we do eventually experience these moments but what I'm hearing from several other churches, not just in the Bay Area but my friends that are in London and around the last couple of years have we been growing by a substantial amount. But these are people coming from unchurched backgrounds, really unchurched, like atheists. We just did as of this recording. Yesterday was a Sunday and we did a welcome lunch. We do those once a month but we have free pizza and salad and everybody who's a newcomer that month, if they want to, they can come to the welcome lunch. Get to know the pastors and I go around the room.

Rene Schlaepfer: 44:55

How long have you been attending? How did you hear about the church? Well, person after person and we've been seeing this for months now said things like yeah, I was an atheist until a month ago and I don't know what happened. But I picked up the One man, came to our last baptism and he said I want to be baptized. I said great, how long have you been coming to the church? Today this is my first day and I said, wow, why did you come to church? He said, well, I've got some friends who are parents of kids in your school our church as a school and uh, and they, uh, I've been mocking them for a dozen years for their faith because I'm an atheist. Then yesterday one of them finally gave me a Bible in the modern language and I picked it up and just started to read one of the gospels Saturday morning. And he said, by last night, saturday night, I'm on my knees on my face begging God for forgiveness for treating him the way I've been treating him. And I came to church today because I want to declare to the world I'm a Christian and I want to be baptized. And and like on Friday, he was an atheist and and another guy, I heard that and then some people come, like to our welcome lunch and they're like yeah, I'm still an atheist, but there's chinks in my armor. I'm starting to think there's something to this. And one man told me I can't explain it and if I tried to you'd think I was crazy. I can't explain it and if I tried to you'd think I was crazy, but it's like I'm literally feeling prompts from God to come to church and consider Jesus as my savior, and I don't even believe in this stuff.

Rene Schlaepfer: 46:33

Another man told me a couple of weeks ago. He said he woke up in the morning his whole family are atheists, non-churchgoers his wife, his teenage daughter. And he said he woke up in the morning with this thought in his brain go to church. And then he said I asked the thought what church? And the thought replied Twin Lakes Church. So I got up, my wife said where are you going early Sunday morning To church? And her jaw dropped. Same with his teenage daughter. He's been coming for about four weeks now and he says this has completely changed my life. I mean, these are these are stories I'm hearing over and over and over again and I've never seen anything like it before. It's incredible and I love it and I would say hang in there at church, because eventually you start to hear these kinds of stories.

J.D. Pearring: 47:27

That's the leadership tip.

Rene Schlaepfer: 47:28

Hang in there, Hang in there. And I would say my leadership tip that helps you do that is one word sabbatical. Get your board to make a sabbatical policy where at least ours is. Once every seven years we get three months off. That's a minimum. Your church isn't going to miss you for three months. Somebody else can do your job, but you will be so recharged You'll be ready for the next seven.

J.D. Pearring: 47:54

That's wonderful. Well, hey, I really appreciate just hearing your story. It's just crazy. I need you to pray for me because I need some milk, I need some green shoes and a job in Tahoe. Yeah, okay, hey, thanks for what you're doing there, thanks for your leadership, thanks for doing the flawed follower and the other ones like that. Check out some of the other ones. It's just really helpful to have a sermon series that you can plug and play, or, you know, in our case, we just said, hey, these are really good titles, way to go, let's steal some of this stuff, let's do some of our own.

Rene Schlaepfer: 48:32

Yeah, totally Thanks for all you do. Rene. You bet man. Thank you for what you do. This podcast is a great idea.

Announcer: 49:27

Thanks for joining the Leading Conversations podcast. We hope that you found it both helpful and encouraging. At Excel Leadership Network, our focus is on the church planter rather than the church. If you'd like to find out more about us, visit our webpage at excelnetworkorg. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. See you next time with another leading conversation.