Leading Conversations
Conversations between J.D. Pearring, Director of Excel Leadership Network, and church planting leaders, innovators, and coaches from around the country.
Leading Conversations
Conversation with James Gleason
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What happens when church becomes the last place people want to go? James Gleason never planned to become a senior pastor, but when a teen in his youth group pointed out how uninviting their church had become, something shifted. That realization launched him on a journey that would transform a congregation of 150 into a thriving church of nearly 2,000 while planting five additional churches.
Growing up with an unstable home life and constantly moving, James describes himself as a "reluctant convert" who initially pursued business before God redirected his path to ministry. His personal experience of brokenness and redemption fuels his passion for helping struggling churches find new life.
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James Gleason's Faith Journey
IntroductionWelcome to the Leading Conversations podcast sponsored by the Excel Leadership Network . On each episode , jd Paring will have conversations with church planting pastors and leaders from around the country . You can learn more about how to connect with Excel at the end of this podcast . Let's join JD now and listen in on this leading conversation .
J.D. PearringWelcome to another edition of the Leading Conversations podcast with Excel Leadership Network . Today we are very happy to have with us the incredible James Gleason from Oregon . He is the executive director of the Venture Church Northwest . Is that right ? You're not the regional executive director , You're the executive director .
James GleasonI'm the regional executive director . There's eight of us around the nation , so I'm in charge of churches in Oregon , washington , idaho , alaska , got one in Montana and I believe it , or not one in California and 242 . And so I get to encourage and coach and meet with guys . I just had a prayer summit with 32 pastors for a couple of days and I like to do that . I like to pray with guys , I like to coach , show up , help them , stand up for them at elder meetings , things like that .
J.D. PearringOh , good , good , good , and you're in the Portland area .
James GleasonYeah , I'm in Hillsborough West . I've been here 31 years .
J.D. PearringIs it raining right now ?
James GleasonNo , it's beautiful , sunny .
J.D. PearringAll right , I don't believe you , but no , hey , let's get right into it .
James GleasonTell us how it was growing up and how you came to Christ . Yeah , so I was born in Indiana and both sides of my family were there , grandparents and such Didn't have a Christian influence much . My parents weren't walking with the Lord , didn't know him . They'd actually kind of walked away from that because my grandparents' church was pilgrim holiness , so a lot of rules and you know that wasn't fun for anybody . But I did have an influence by my grandparents . We migrated back and forth across the United States from Indiana to California , kind of in the south south central valley , back and forth a lot . My dad had anger issues . He would quit jobs and get hired somewhere else . So for a number of years it felt like we were living in the back seat of a car and when we would end up back in Indiana we just lived with my grandparents and so there was some influence . We landed in Petaluma , california , in the fall of 75 .
James GleasonAnd because of my grandma's influence I knew I had to go to church , even though it wasn't anything I really aspired to myself . So my sister and I found a phone book and went , found a church and walked there and my parents started going and went , probably a year or two and I don't . I don't know that . I heard the gospel . I think it was tim keller that said you can go to church for years and they can preach the gospel and you don't hear it . It's not because it's not preached , it's just you're , you're not open , you don't hear it , you know so I didn't go to church on your own yeah , yeah , first yeah and your grandparents were not living there , it was just .
James GleasonNo , you know , they had just instilled this thought that you need to go to church and I didn't know exactly why , but we went and got plugged in . My dad he was angry , abusive , there was some sexual abuse in the family . My parents split and my mom actually had gone forward when she was a young , young child at a Leonard Ravenhill revival way back in the day , and the Lord got a hold of her and , through just extraordinary circumstances , we ended up in a church , a little Baptist church in Petaluma there , and I didn't want to go . It was in the fall of 79 . I was kicking and screaming . Uh , in fact I was . I was mad at the God that didn't exist , because he had let me down , you know , and the foundation had been ripped out from underneath of me . Uh , what ended up happening was there was this uh , youth retreat , uh , up in Truckee , up there in the snow in the Thanksgiving weekend , and my mom said , hey , I want you and my sister , who was a couple years older than me , I want you and Mary to go . And I didn't want to go and I made this lame excuse . I said , hey , if I go I might miss a Star Trek episode . I was hoping and praying . My mom didn't understand the concept of syndication , but you know , I had to go and she said just go , you're going to go . And I determined that I was going to have a horrible time and she said if this doesn't work out , we'll stop going . Well , my heart was pretty hard and we ended up at this retreat .
James GleasonI grew up poor . We were on government assistance a lot , so I didn't have a lot of stuff , didn't go skiing never been there and so I went out in the snow with jeans and within an hour I was just soaking wet . I went back to this little place where all the youth had been staying . I was just going to sulk and I was determined to go home , having had a horrible time . And this gal I didn't even know was in the room , terry . She looked over at me and said hey , you want to play a game ? And I said no . And she goes come on , play a game . I said no and she said come on , let's play a game . And there was another gal in the room , kathy . I didn't see anybody because I was closed to everything . I said what game she goes , pitt , I go . That sounds really stupid . She goes , it is , and within five minutes I was laughing and having fun and my heart began to crack and my icy cold heart began to open up .
James GleasonWent back we were in the youth group studying the book of Romans . We had those little quarterlies back in the day . It was called Write in Romans and we were in chapter five and just the thought of God loving me , even when I was a sinner , that he would send his son to die for me , blew me away . It really only took a couple of weeks . At that point I remember it vividly early December of 1979 , I had made my bed , I was going to go to school and I stood by the bed and I had wrestled man , I had really wrestled . And I just stood there and I said , okay , I believe . And um , that was it . You know , I I felt a little bit like Lewis , cs Lewis , you know the most uh , dejected , you know reluctant , convert in all of England kind of thing .
James GleasonBut I said yes , and I went to school and but something happened
Finding Ministry Calling
James Gleason, something started and God started coming alive in me . I plugged into the youth group . I was really formed by that young youth group . Friends there ended up going to the Christian school at my church , which was small , but I really wanted to discover this God that loved me and that was in 10th grade . I finally switched and the reality is up to that point I'd gone to 13 different schools because we moved all the time , and one year I was in three different schools because my dad just couldn't keep that job or wouldn't . And the end result is I was pretty isolated and introvert . I had a lot of shame from my upbringing and the things that happened in my family and to my life . And yet God started to turn that around and I just man . Everything started to change .
J.D. PearringWow . Was there a call to ministry in there . How did that happen ? How did you get involved in ?
James GleasonYeah , I would say yeah , definitely , because I went to college at Salem , oregon , oregon . That's how I moved to the pacific northwest and I was going to go become , uh , like , a business manager or something like that . So I took a four-year degree in business management and accounting . I thought I'd get an mba and drive to work across golden gate bridge every day in san francisco . That was my dream , you know , and I was aspired to have more because , you know , you're from California , I grew up there . There's this thing in the water that makes you want more , and I wanted it . Well , my sophomore year , I came back for the summer and my pastor had previously asked me what I consider being the youth intern and I said sure . So they gave me an office , they gave me keys to the church van this is for the summer . Yeah , it was this summer .
James GleasonI just finished my second year and I had been doing word studies in college and so I thought I'm going to teach through something open , the book of Philippians . And I taught through the book of Philippians that summer . It changed my life . I hope they learned something , but it was radical for me , just wanting to know Christ , to experience Christ , to be , as Paul said up front a bondservant of the Lord Jesus Christ . And I went back to college and I just switched . I just said I can't do this anymore .
James GleasonI love business , I have a business mind . I'm glad I have some accounting , but I've got to go into ministry . So I just signed up for the pastoral'm glad I have some accounting , but I've got to go into ministry . So I just signed up for the pastoral ministry program , got that degree and I just knew the Lord was calling me to reach young people . For me it was hey , he saved me . He rescued me out of brokenness and bondage . I want to be a conduit for him , saving others . So I graduated , went to Boise , idaho Lovely place , loved it back then Was a great spot .
J.D. PearringNow do you pronounce it Boise or Boise ?
James GleasonWell Boise , but yeah .
J.D. PearringWell , there's a lot of controversy on that , yeah .
James GleasonNo , it's Boise , but I've been gone 31 years . I lived there as a little kid for four years . It was that . It was a place . One of my best friends from college was nearby and we had nine churches . They were regular Baptists , so pretty conservative , maybe a little more fundamental , separatistic , and it was amazing . It was like an environment for me to grow in . What does it mean to lead and disciple students , to see them come to faith in Christ , grow in Him ? I love equipping and so equipping students , empowering them for ministry and seeing them just plug into the church . Five years of that I made a transition . I knew I wanted to go to seminary , so I came to Portland , the Portland area , and ended up going to Multnomah Seminary , got my master's In that time period .
James GleasonFour years into my church here , our senior pastor retired and I only ever wanted to be a youth pastor . That was my dream . I never wanted to step down to a lesser position , you know . And yet God began to move in my heart . I felt a different calling and it was that I was growing discontent with the local church . In fact , what happened was this gal Kelsey , who was in my youth group , graduated and she kept coming back and serving and I looked at her one Sunday . I said , hey , why don't you want to go to big church ? You know she goes , have you seen it ? And I go , what do you mean ? She goes , look at it next time .
James GleasonSo I went to church the next Sunday and I just stood in the back and I looked and I realized , yeah , I don't think I'd come here , I don't think I'd bring my lost friends , and God began to do a work in my heart . My wife confirmed that and so I put my name in the hat and six months later they said , yes , I put my name in the hat and six months later they said , yes , I had no idea what I was doing . I just knew I could youth , pastor older people and we just started a journey of reaching people for Christ . I'm not an evangelist , but I learned how to share the gospel and preach it , and we grew from 150 people to at our height about 2018 , 2019 , before I stepped away 1850 . We planted five churches in that time since it planted our first granddaughter church , and I didn't know what I was doing . I just wanted to make disciples and the Lord just did some amazing things . So that calling was there .
James GleasonAnd then , toward the end of that , this group , this conservative Baptist , they reached out to me and wanted to know if I'd be their executive director . And again it was a confirmed calling with my wife . I say this , in fact I preached on Sunday about the Holy Spirit . I said the Holy Spirit sounds a lot like my wife if I would just listen . And all three times it was confirmed this is a good decision . And so I would just listen . And all three times it was confirmed this is a good decision . And so I stepped into that . And now I'm in the season where I get to coach pastors I'm 60 , and so I'm going to tail into that . I'm really enjoying pouring into that next generation . But every time I would say I really definitely felt a call , a whisper . The wind of the spirit blew and I wanted to follow him .
J.D. PearringWell , good , well , thanks for sharing your story . I know when you were pastoring in Portland . There , when you were leading the church , there was a spirit of
Building Community with Portland Pastors
J.D. Pearringcamaraderie with some of the other pastors there in Portland . Right , talk about that .
James GleasonAbsolutely so . After the Billy Graham crusade which predated me I think that was 92 , I came in 94 , there was a large poll of pastors praying and in fact when I showed up to Hillsborough we brought Louisa Palau out to do the first of its festivals smaller , you know , evangelistic events and all the pastors gathered to pray . Well , that reverberated for decades . Gathered to pray well , that reverberated for decades . In fact , just in Hillsborough it was just about two decades of weekly praying together as pastors and COVID stopped it and we now meet once a month .
James GleasonBut in the Portland area there was a collection of pastors of all-size churches , but some of the larger churches , well , we just gathered regularly and we wanted to be not the best church in the city I know it's cliche-ish , but it was really in our hearts but the best church for the city . And so we partnered with city leaders , non-believers , we helped with schools , we plugged into ministries , our church , we kind of connected on the homeless issue , homelessness in Hillsborough , working with the school district and working with ex-prisoners . We actually started a church for men and women that came out of long-term incarceration and with the help of Prison Fellowship actually the nodding , the nudging of Prison Fellowship we started what they say is the first church for ex-prisoners Still going , still lively , reaching men and women coming out of incarceration and helping them land and get back on their feet .
J.D. PearringOh , that sounds pretty impactful . And we here in Portland God's not there but it sounds like you guys had a pretty big impact .
James GleasonWell , you know I was just talking to some guys about this in what we would consider the left coast you know , you're in Sacramento there the progressive nature of it the more north you go . Portland and Seattle very progressive . It's a beautiful place . During COVID we had people who moved to Idaho or moved to Missouri , branson , you know , because God's country , and we just said this is where people are needed , so don't abandon the darkness of the Pacific Northwest . This is where the gospel shines brightest and it is true , you can talk about God to people and they don't have a clue what you're talking about . And so I think we're missionaries in a great way and I think we're where the nation is heading . Unless we experience a significant awakening , everybody will be like Portland and Seattle in the next 20 years awakening Everybody will be like Portland and Seattle in the next 20 years , so it's going to rain everywhere is what you're saying .
James GleasonWell , I talked to , I was at Josh's group a couple years ago and I was talking with his group of pastors . When you know , the reality is , as a California boy moving up to the Pacific Northwest , it was cold and rainy , I got sick a lot and it's dark , and that's true spiritually , that's very true spiritually . It's dark up here , it's cold , it's rainy and you have to figure out how to survive in that .
J.D. PearringWhat are a couple of ways of surviving up there out , how to survive in there , what are a couple ways of surviving up there ? Or just for anybody who's in , as the country gets , uh , darker and darker . I mean I I hear from so many church planters ours is the darkest . Yeah , I was in fort lauderdale this week and they were talking about how dark it is in fort lauderdale . Yeah , I mean , you , you need sunglasses , but it's really dark . What are some coping mechanisms for that ?
James GleasonYeah , I would say , if we could use the term post-Christian , we've experienced it for the longest time up here . I would say a couple things . Number one don't drift . Stay strong and the current is strong around you . The river is rising . Stay strong and the current is strong around you . The river is rising . Don't drift , Don't lift your feet up .
James GleasonI Used to spend time as a kid up north kind of Healdsburg , guerneville . There's a area called the Russian River and there's this ranch called Cassini and we'd go camping there our church , to the camp out there and it was on this Bend and it was really kind of cool where you could be on one side of it and Hang out , and all of a sudden , within an where you could be on one side of it and hang out , and all of a sudden within an hour you were on the other side of it . You don't notice it , you're just drifting because you play in the water , you lift your feet up and you pretty much move , and then you'd run across the sand and get back in and an hour later you're on the other side . I think drifting happens naturally , whether it's theologically , just your own relationship with your lost neighbors we tend to no longer share the gospel or even believe some of the basic elements . I can't tell you the number of pastors that I know that have either deconstructed their faith or have changed deep aspects of theology to fit into the culture . So I just say , number one don't drift . Just stay strong on the truth of God's word . Even though the stream and the current is strong , the moment you lift your foot up you're going to fall , you're going to slide and it's going to be hard-pressed to stand up again .
James GleasonAnd then the second one is just develop deep friendships with other people in ministry . For , like I said , 20 years , just in Hillsborough plus the other in the Portland area , those pastors have become dear friends to me and you can't do ministry alone . I was a senior pastor of a church and we were growing , so we had multiple staff . But there's nothing like lead pastors getting together , senior pastors getting together , praying together , talking together , going on prayer retreats , just spending days together , knowing that someone is supporting you , because you can't do it alone . Not just surface level friendships , but where you'd lay your life down for another brother . We would preach in different churches , we would spend times together , we would raise money together , we would support financially other churches , because that's how much of a relationship we had . So I would say those are the two things as a kind of a one and a two for me .
J.D. PearringI think you just gave a commercial for our network , because that's what we're trying to do bring the , you know , for church planters , but also leaders . Bring together a regular basis . So you know you're not , you are not on your own . Let me ask you this so you're pastoring this church , what was the impetus for saying I'm going to move to coaching pastors and I'm going to take this judicatory job and be the executive director ? What
Coaching Others Through Church Growth
J.D. Pearringcaused that ? What was pushing you to that ?
James GleasonWell , looking back , it started early because as our church started to grow we started to reach people for Christ . I'd never been in a size of a church that I'd been in . I mean , I was raised in a church of 100 . My church in Boise was 100 . I'm in a church of 150 , not much different . But now we're 250 . And I don't know how to lead . Now we're 350 . I don't know what's going on . Now we're a and I don't know . I don't know how to lead . Now we're 350 . I don't know what's going on . Now we're a medium-sized church . We're doing a couple services , we're stretched . I don't have a clue , jd , I don't know what .
James GleasonSo I reached out to local pastors who had walked that journey and I just bought them coffee , I bought them lunch . I would meet with them and then , three or four months later , come back and meet with them and they'd write things on a napkin and I'd take it back and then I would try to , you know , try things . And so I was coached locally . I started getting coached regionally , did a couple national coaches hung out with them and I just became a better pastor at every size church . I would not have made it if it hadn't been for those guys pouring into me church . I would not have made it if it hadn't been for those guys pouring into me .
James GleasonAnd so somewhere along the way , a guy started coming to me and saying hey , how , why is God blessing your church ? Why is it growing ? How can you preach and see people come to Christ ? How do you do this ? What does it mean to have a multiple staff ? I mean just a litany of questions . And so I just started sharing that and as I was pouring into them , I realized I kind of love that more than just pastoring the local church . So I started to split that a little bit and then , when this job came calling , I said well , if I can coach pastors to the next step of their journey , I'm all in .
J.D. PearringGood , good , good . So are you ? Are you coaching ? I know you're coaching inside the network Are you coaching outside your network to other ?
James GleasonYeah , I actually went to Western Seminary to get a coaching certificate . Just I wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing and I started coaching . I'm coaching a couple of guys outside the network , just guys that connected somehow , and not even in my region . With telephone and Zoom , you can do anything these days .
J.D. PearringSo if somebody says , hey , I really like this guy , I want to talk to him about coaching , how do we reach out to you ?
James GleasonYeah , I mean my information's on the Church Venture Northwest website . I don't know if you'd include the email , but you can always email me . I don't know if you'd include the email , but you can always email me , james , at churchventurenwcom . My sweet spot is revitalization and I love that conversation because that's what God did in our church . You're into church planting , which I think is great .
James GleasonI was on the other side of church planting . We planted churches , but we planted churches by giving birth and sending people out , and so I know that side of it . But my sweet spot is sitting with guys that want to see their church revitalized . You know , it's funny , the old adage . A seminary professor said the same thing to me . It was a church planting class and I failed the test . I'm not going to be a planter . But he said it's a lot easier to plant churches and raise the dead . And it's a joke . And I failed the test . I'm not going to be a planter . But he said it's a lot easier to plant churches and raise the dead . And it's a joke and I get it . But I just felt called to be that guy that saw God raise the dead and he did it . So if a church wants to go from that complacency , no spiritual heat , to vibrancy and things coming alive . That's my sweet spot . I love that .
J.D. PearringGood , well , I hope somebody reaches out to you . Hey , what are you seeing ? You're coaching all these planters or these pastors these days , coaching leaders . What are you seeing in the larger church
Current Church Landscape Challenges
J.D. Pearringworld these days ?
James GleasonWell , I think a lot of churches are going to close . That's just the reality , and that's probably not going to be the saddest thing because they're not making a dent for the kingdom . But I don't see a lot of young guys coming up that want to pastor churches . That would really like to plow in . There was a whole wave of church planters that's where you're at Acts 29 Network and many , if not all , those were youth pastors or worship pastors that wanted to make that transition to senior pastor . I think a lot of those in our area at least , a lot of those positions have already drifted , and so there's not much left for church planters or even senior pastors of churches .
James GleasonWe are trying to raise up our own pastors . Just take lay people in the church and train them up , call them into ministry . I know when I was a kid in high school we regularly heard sermons about go on the mission field , become a pastor , go in the ministry . I don't hear that at all anymore and I'm all for whatever God's wired you to be . Be a scientist , that's awesome . You know code computer , that's great . But I don't think we call people into ministry like we used to , or challenge them into it , and so I think that in the next 20 years , not only are a bunch of churches going to close , they're going to close because there are no pastors to step into those churches . So we have to raise the next generation of pastors up . We've got to get behind people , men and women . Send them on the mission field if it were . Whatever it takes to get into ministry seriously as a profession .
J.D. PearringI completely agree with you . I think when I was growing up it was constant . I grew up Catholic , so every time I turned around I was like you want to be a priest , you want to be a priest , and I mean I ran from that . But I've noticed too , we don't do that as much . You know your story . There's a camp element to it that used to be kind of just a feeding ground for people going into ministry . And we don't do camping anymore . We don't do much . So I think we need to turn things around . We need to just start asking hey , do you think god wants you to plant a church ? How's that ? Uh , you think you should be going into ministry ? So that's one . So that that's kind of of a bad news of what you're seeing . What's something good you're seeing ?
James GleasonWell , you know it's strange . I travel around , I ask a lot of questions Right now , right now , in this little slice of time , churches that are healthy , that are doing things , are seeing people come to church and those people have had zero church background . It's happening in my church . I mean you know we worked hard to reach out to those people have had zero church background . It's happening in my church . I mean , you know we worked hard to reach out to get people .
James GleasonRight now there's something going on where all across the Pacific Northwest I'm hearing stories , I'm interacting with pastors where people are just coming out of the woodwork and showing up to church . They know nothing , they don't know anything , they don't have a Bible , they're spiritually curious and they're just jumping in and the number of people that we're seeing engaged in a relationship and being saved for us and in the Northwest is unprecedented . And I mean , if that's the shaking of the fabric of the earth that happened during COVID , well , god bless that , even in the midst of the tragedy there . But we're seeing something that we haven't seen before People that had zero interest are now walking into the doors of a church , and why we have no reason to . We can't explain it , except God's doing it . It's really , it's really exciting .
J.D. PearringGod is working . It's really interesting to see God is working . It's really interesting to see you know , things turn . Obviously the Holy Spirit is out there working and you know our methods change , they go up and down , they're all over . But yeah , that is fascinating to see . Hey , give us a leadership tip or two .
James GleasonYou've been doing this for
Leadership Lessons and Mustang Restoration
James Gleasona while . Give us a leadership tip . Doing this for a while ? Give us a leadership tip . Yeah , I , you know , I've been on a journey of figuring out how to ask more questions and give answers . You know , um , I , I think we're trained to tell people how to do things , um , but I think a better approach is just to ask questions , and so I think great leaders ask great questions . Um , I , you know some of the questions I put in my pocket that I ask . This works great for anybody and I think it's a sensitivity , the holy spirit moment .
James GleasonBut just go up to somebody and ask them , you know , tell me your story . You know what's your story I , I first did that and I read about and I thought that's a great question . But I'm pretty shy , to be honest , with you , introverted , and we were a couple guys from our church , maybe half a dozen . We're in a van , we're headed down to Mexico to build a house and we had traveled all night and we stopped in this place in southern Oregon McDonald's , and we're just going to grab some breakfast , and I just walked out of the van going okay , lord , I'm going to do it by faith , I'm going to ask the question .
James GleasonAnd I get in line and there's an old guy in front of me and I just looked at him . I said , hey , tell me your story . Which I thought was kind of really dumb , to be honest with you , but I did it anyway . The guy opened up and started talking to me and started sharing his life with me . I ended up buying he and his wife breakfast and sat down with them and they had to yank me out of the chair to get back in the van to go . But I realized that people want to share their story and so , whether it's with new neighbors , just hey , tell me your story . Again , it sounds super naive , but I've had more conversations . It's pretty amazing . Obviously there are all kinds of questions you can ask to probe and get down there , but the bottom line is I think great leaders ask great questions .
J.D. PearringGood , now that's the coaching piece . Do you do much consulting ?
James GleasonI do , I do .
J.D. PearringI was on a call a few days ago and I started asking questions and the guy said look , I don't have time for questions , Just tell me what I need to do on this one .
James GleasonYeah , that's the challenging piece , because I do both coaching and consulting and you have to enter into that . A guy I'm supposed to be on Zoom with later today he listed this whole page of problems in his church and I'm just going to ask him do you want me to coach you or you want me to consult you ? Because coaching is the long journey Because , if you want , I can tell you what I think based on what you told me , but I don't know that that's what he wants . So both of them are great . I love consulting because there is a lot of wisdom and experience and age and all that Coaching you can't really bring a lot into that . And all that coaching you can't really bring a lot into that .
J.D. PearringWell , let me ask you one last question . I know you're a Mustang guy . How did that happen ? Ford Mustang .
James GleasonYeah , I don't know . I always liked the 65 , 66 Mustangs . I've always been attracted to them Convertibles coupes , fastbacks . And as I was wrapping up my doctorate I found myself with a lot more free time , bought a motorcycle , which was great , Because it had been years since I've ridden . I bought a really nice guitar the one on the wall here at Martin started playing guitar again and I started tinkering and so I bought a 66 coupe GT , a 289 , four barrel , four speed , and I ripped that sucker apart , put it on a rotisserie , started doing all the work . I'm not a good welder , I'm not a good body man , so I paid people to do the finish work on that . It's painted . I'm reinstalling the interior . I got wiring kit . You can buy everything . You know that .
J.D. PearringYou have a convertible , you can buy everything from a catalog . Of course it's expensive at that point , but I just . The two biggest Mustang places , uh , are used to be here in Sacramento . Now the largest one , um , one of the reasons we got a Mustang is the Sacramento Mustang and American Mustang are here .
James GleasonYou can just drive , you can get anything for them ?
J.D. PearringYeah .
James GleasonYeah , and I'll be in SAC in the fall uh , in a meeting . So I want to want to see your car and also check that out . For me it is a , it is a metaphor . Um , I , I'm an old , I'm an old car guy . So when I'm driving down the road and I see like a fifties or sixties car restored , my heart stops . My , I just want to look at it . In fact , everybody and I think to myself the money I'm spending on this car , which isn't cheap , is actually cheaper than a brand new car . Okay , I were to cash it out and hands down .
James GleasonWhen I drive from my , it's a Raven black , so it's a gloss black , straight body , a coupe with a black interior , red stripes . When I finally get to the point where I drive that down the road , people will look at that and they will marvel at it because it's beautiful . They don't make them like that . But the process to get there is , for me , the parallel of a church that's revitalized . You got to strip it down , you got to take it down , you got to cut stuff out , repair stuff , you got to work hard to get it back together . But you can . And when it's a church that's been revitalized , it's just like a 1966 Mustang that's back to showroom condition . It's a miracle , it's a marvel they don't make them like that anymore . But I think it's a testament to God's grace and it will be a testament to God's grace if I actually finish this and drive it in the next couple years .
J.D. PearringI'm sure you will . I'm sure you will . I'm looking forward to taking you out . Mine's more of a survivor . I mean I have two Mustangs . I know six , but I have the 16 , but I have the 66 . It's just a testament , hey , it just keeps going . It's just a testament , hey , it just keeps . It keeps going . It's it's , it's like . It's like me . I'm an older guy . Hey , I'm trying my best to get down the road so well . Hey , thanks so much , james , thanks for your ministry there . I know you've influenced just a lot of people in the Northwest and all over . Thanks for your willingness to be on this podcast and I just I'm looking forward to to seeing you here soon , but thanks so much for being here today .
James GleasonThanks , JD .
IntroductionThanks for joining the Leading Conversations podcast . We hope that you found it both helpful and encouraging . At Excel Leadership Network , our focus is on the church planter rather than the church . If you'd like to find out more about us , visit our webpage at excelnetworkorg . Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes . See you next time with another leading conversation .
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