Speaker: 0:06

Welcome to the Leading Conversations Podcast, sponsored by the Excel Leadership Network. On each episode, JD and Perry will have conversations with church plenty pastors and leaders from around the country. You can learn more about how to connect with Excel at the end of this podcast. Let's join JD now and listen in on this leading conversation.

Speaker 2: 0:29

Welcome to another edition of Leading Conversations with Excel Leadership Network. And today we are thrilled to have with us Chris and Senator McGriff in beautiful Chicago, my kind of town. So uh thanks for being here. Of course. Thanks for having us. How about Chicago these days?

Speaker 3: 0:49

Um, you know, it's beautiful fall weather right now. The the season is changing. I'm sure I I can sense winter in the horizons, but we're just gonna enjoy the last few beautiful days of fall. When does winter hit there? It's different every year.

Speaker 1: 1:06

Usually October is when it's like, okay, we can stay inside now till March.

Speaker 2: 1:11

Yeah. Wow. Good good for you guys. You guys are crazy to live there.

Speaker 3: 1:15

So um my my welcome to Chicago moment was when we moved here, it snowed on Halloween uh in 20 uh 19, I think that was, and it was weird. And I was just like, all right, here we go.

Speaker 2: 1:31

Okay, okay. And what's the best thing about Chicago?

Speaker 1: 1:34

Ooh, everything. Food, architecture, never a boring moment, always something to do.

Speaker 3: 1:44

Yeah, for me, it's the culture. I just love the the the um, you know, we're a group of people who just like love to work hard. Um, you know, they call us the city with broad shoulders, so we just we love to get after it, and um, you know, that brings a lot of people here, and so it's a hodgepodge of you know, all the best things about the Midwest, plus it's a global city, so people will move from other parts of the world to come here and uh to work hard. So I I love it.

Speaker 2: 2:12

Great, great, great. Well, I I always love visiting Chicago, and the food's great too. So um hey, tell us your story uh growing up, how you came to Christ, each of you.

Speaker 3: 2:23

Yeah, for sure. So um we kind of have opposite stories. So I'll start with mine. Um, I uh I grew up in church, my dad was a pastor and um you know grew up in and around ministry, my mom's side of the family, several pastors and ministry leaders in that lane. And so um actually growing up, I didn't really want to have anything to do with ministry. Um, I served in church because I was supposed to and because my parents made me. Uh I jokingly tell stories of being a uh a kid in children's church, and because you know I was one of the few kids, I was leading the children's church. So I I found myself many moments um yeah, in it, even though I didn't necessarily want to do it. And I was really into sports, basketball was my thing, played other sports as well, but really had a desire to find my own way in the world. And I remember when um I went to college, ended up playing some basketball there, and getting to the end of that college career, um, I was just trying to decide and figure out, like, hey, what am I gonna do with my life? And um, you know, for me, um, I I've always been in church, but you know, it was I struggled to have those moments of real like surrender. What does real surrender look like? And so I had a moment when I was in college when I realized that I was getting to the end of what I could do on my own and um had no next steps. And I just was like, all right, God, like clearly, you know, my mom and dad have been praying for me for years, telling me, like, hey, you're gonna do this, and God has a calling on your life. And I just kind of ran from it. And for me, it was like a real moment of surrender of like, okay, I'm I'm out of ideas, so whatever you know you want for my life, I I uh will do. Whatever doors you open, I'll walk through. And um, that's a very dangerous prayer. And um had no clue it was gonna lead to uh ultimately pastoring and leading. And um, but yeah, that's that's where this has brought us to.

Speaker 2: 4:23

Yeah, thanks for sharing. How about you, Sarah?

Speaker 1: 4:25

Yeah, so mine's polar opposite. So um I'm the to the date only Christian in my entire family. Um, so I was not raised Christian, was raised here in Chicago, which, you know, born and raised amazing. Um, yeah, grew up in extreme brokenness, um, a lot of kind of things there. And so in my teen years, um, I came across someone who told me about Jesus and told me um about salvation and all these things. And I really quickly just got kind of like angry and like dismissed it and you know, didn't really think much of it. And then um fast forward maybe like a year, I hit a moment when I'm 17 and I'm feeling extremely broken, like my life is a mess. I have no future, you know, just really in a low, low place, very much alone, um, trying to navigate the world as a 17-year-old. And I remember that conversation a while back about this person named Jesus who, you know, can change your life. And it felt like, okay, if this is the last thing I can grip onto, let's, you know, give it a shot. And I prayed the most uh, you know, simple prayer of uh just being totally transparent. The prayer was, God, I don't even know if you're real, but if you are, I choose to believe in you, I ask you to come into my life and Jesus like be my savior. And that was all I kind of remembered from you know that conversation. And I went to sleep and I woke up the next day radically transformed. Um, obviously my life was different, you know, my my situation was still difficult and full of struggle and pain, but my heart, just everything inside of me had changed um dramatically. And so yeah, I I didn't even know you were supposed to like go to church or anything like that. So I just got a Bible and began reading my Bible, praying, talking with the Lord, spending time with the Holy Spirit, um, and didn't end up going to church for about two years after that when I met another Christian who was like, Oh, you need to be in a church. And so, yeah, so that's that's my transformation story.

Speaker 2: 6:18

Wow, wow. So, how did you opposite people, how did you meet?

Speaker 3: 6:23

Church. Yeah, church. It's uh it's the meeting place of all types of people. But yeah, we uh uh back in 2012, um, I came on staff uh to a church. Um and Sarah had already been working there for previous years and um, you know, uh had her own story and journey up into that point. And um, you know, I I was we also have an age gap, which is a little interesting, but uh so um, you know, I would I was 23 at the time and um in ministry at this point uh for the last three years and you know was desiring to like be married. Most 23-year-old men in America these days are not looking for that, but I definitely was looking for that. And um, you know, Sarah uh was was in her 30s and had uh kids and it was just like a whole situation. And so, anyways, my first day on staff at this church, uh, we met, and um, you know, I knew from the moment I saw her that um that that was supposed to be my wife, and I was like, that she's it, like no, nobody else does it. And um, it took a little convincing on the other side, I would say, due to some other circumstances. You know, I was young and and some other things, but ultimately um I would say, yeah, we just we hit it off right away, and then the rest was history. So we've been married now. Uh, we'll celebrate 13 years of marriage um uh here in December. Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:50

Great, great. So you're the cradle robber, Sarah.

Speaker 1: 7:53

I am, probably.

Speaker 2: 7:56

So, what's your perspective on that?

Speaker 1: 7:58

Yeah, well, I liked him. It was very much like um like at first sight, attraction at first sight, but yeah, just being the practical one of the relationship, right? I'm like, oh, this is this doesn't make sense. You know, he's he's young. I'm not super, you know, looking to be married again. I'm I'm just gonna be in ministry and serve the Lord and you know, raise my children. But um, it became very obvious very quickly that um, you know, this was a person I wanted to be married to and wanted to, you know, basically restart life with. Um, you know, and um yeah, we we talked very quickly. Our first date actually was two weeks after we met, and we legitimately talked about getting married and starting a church. And we shared our dreams and shared our visions. And the one theme that we both had is we both very much felt called to start and pastor churches. And so that was a dream I had kind of like let go of, you know, from things that had happened in the past. And so yeah, to reconnect to that uh vision and to remember that, you know, the things God calls us to, it doesn't go away, even when it looks like it'll be impossible. He still carries on that dream and still, you know, carries on that calling for you. And uh yeah, so is I didn't marry him for church planting, but um, I married him because he's incredible. But yeah, it was such a blessing to also realize through this relationship and this person that I deeply love, you know, that God is redeeming a story. And so yeah, it was incredible.

Speaker 2: 9:23

Where did the uh where did the desire or the thought of starting a church come from?

Speaker 3: 9:30

Yeah, for me, I I would say um, you know, it was kind of one of those things that was like a natural progression that happened with me. I think I I knew innately from a young age, but I don't think I like stepped into that until, you know, again, like I prayed the prayer, like, okay, like whatever doors you open. And so it started small, like you know, I started leading worship at a church, and then you know, that turned into me becoming a worship leader and then a worship pastor, and then you know, I'm working and doing some creative stuff and like kind of wet my whistle in that way. So it was just like a little progression where it was almost like, you know, if the Lord would have kind of just like threw all of that on me from a young age, I don't know that I would have been able to handle it, right? And so um it was just kind of a short, small progression in these little steps of obedience and faith, at least for me.

Speaker 1: 10:20

Um yeah, mine of course was a little bit different. Pretty much any question you ask us will have opposite ends of the spectrum for uh for answers, which is cool. Um, but yeah, mine was more um just yeah, as an adult, I just kept, you know, the more I I finally got in church, you know, at like 1920, um, was a small church plant. I didn't know there was any other type of church, you know. Um, so I'm kind of like helping this church plant become a thing and um loved every second of that. And I just would always kind of see myself um in my quiet time with the Lord, in my prayer time, um, you know, preaching to people and and loving people and pastoring people. And um, you know, at first I just, you know, wasn't really sure what that was. And then the more that kind of stuck with me and the more I prayed about it um and prayed with people and talked to mentors, it became very clear like, you know, God was calling me to lead a body of people and lead a community, a church community. And so um, yeah, I just uh worked in ministry, worked in church, and had always kind of been like the second hand um of the lead pastor in that role and loved it. So really, you know, drove the church functions and and the future of the church. And so yeah, just very much more of a heart sensing, you know, of the Lord calling me to that, that you know, you're uniquely equipped to do this and there will be a specific time where you know something doesn't exist that you have what's necessary to like bring the gospel to that space. And so yeah, um, that was more mine, was just more that like, you know, kind of visionary sensing and uh people speaking into my life, and just you know, the desire was just there, um, even when it didn't, you know, super make sense of you know, how how would this even take place? You know, how would I even plant a church? How does this even happen? You know, um, so yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:59

So this is the first date conversation.

Speaker 1: 12:01

This is, yeah. It was. He was wasting no time and neither was I. It was like, look, these are the things we feel God has called us to. Like, if if that doesn't mesh somehow together, let's not force this because you know, we we don't want our whole marriage to be based on this calling, but it has to be, you know, such a huge factor of of who we are and who God has called us to be. And you know, when God has something good for us, it'll it'll, you know, puzzle pieces, right? Come together, and so that was an important piece for both of us, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:33

And Chris, you stepped right into marriage and parenting at the same time. How did that go?

Speaker 3: 12:38

Who um we we're still here. Um, no, I mean, it was a gift in a sense. Um, it was definitely hard. I mean, I again I was very young. Um, you know, I've always kind of thought of myself as like an old soul in some ways, and you know, I've uh some things I had to grow up very quickly in. Like I mentioned the quick story about the like leading children's church as a children. So as a child. So I feel very similar, you know, like I wasn't really, you know, super equipped or prepared for that, but I really feel like you know, the Lord really me in that of like just, you know, through the through trying it and doing it is actually how I learned. And so it's been like uh that's been a consistent theme in my life, is like I've actually been thrust into roles and things that I wasn't prepared for, and that like actually in it I've been able to function and be able to um um grow into it. So yeah, I mean, I I I don't know sometimes, but um, you know, our um our daughter is uh now gonna be 26 this year, and um she's you know, it's wild. I I raised her from when she was 12 until she was 26, and so yeah, it's uh it's it's wild. We got two grandkids, and um, I feel like I'm learning how to do that all over again. I most days I feel ill-equipped and like not prepared, but the Lord uses it anyway.

Speaker 2: 14:11

How was that for you, Sarah?

Speaker 1: 14:12

It's great, yeah. It was, you know, an answer to prayer, you know, obviously like having someone come alongside you as a single mom trying to make it, you know, and and just be a support. And um, yeah, my daughter calls him dad and loves him. And you know, the great he's Papa Cago, so for Papa Chicago to the grand baby. And um, yeah, so it's just been such a blessing to see, you know, sure, it'd be nice if we had the you know traditional story and it wasn't so messy and blended and convoluted, but that's our story, and it's really beautiful, you know, to see the ways that God works through that. And um, it doesn't come without its challenges for sure, you know, even 13 years later, where every new area or new stage of life we're navigating. Um, but I actually think that's beautiful. You know, it requires a dependence on the Lord, it requires a deep connection together and an understanding, and really it's just equipped us to handle, you know, church planting in a messy space. You know, church planting in Chicago is not easy and and smooth and straight line. You know, it's basically this, this, you know, it's the blended family, it's the unexpected, it's trying to figure things out as you go. And um, yeah, so we're super grateful for that and the impact it has on people in our community, you know, like, oh, your life was messy, my life is messy, like we can do this together. So, you know, wouldn't have it any other way, but very much appreciate Chris and his, you know, the love he has extended to you know, kids that weren't his and just own that and and has really changed their life and their future.

Speaker 2: 15:36

So that's that's been such a well, we're all messy and convoluted. So so you guys met well, you weren't in Chicago, right?

Speaker 1: 15:46

No, we were in Oklahoma.

Speaker 2: 15:48

Oklahoma.

Speaker 1: 15:51

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 15:54

The wind comes sweeping down the plane.

Speaker 2: 15:59

Well, yeah, you can sing that for us, Chris. You probably sound so good. Oh god, and uh and uh Chris, I know you've kind of lived all over the place. So so why did you guys pick Chicago? Because it's your hometown, Sarah or what's actually not gonna come back here.

Speaker 3: 16:18

I think, yeah, what's interesting is you know, as we reminisce about uh kind of the story of first date, you know, there was a lot of stuff there. Like one of the things we just I mean briefly talked about and touched on, and I didn't really even put that together until like we fully fully like actually got to Chicago. But you know, one of the things that connected us initially in our first conversation was um, I'm a huge baseball fan, loved baseball my entire life. I grew up, uh like you mentioned, my dad was in the military also, so we moved around a little bit, and so you know, I didn't have the traditional sense of like, oh, I grew up watching, you know, the same like my hometown team. And so um, you know, for me when I was coming of age, like I was playing baseball, but a big thing was happening around that time was you know, you had movies like rookie of the year, and then you had um, you know, the home run chase with Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa. And so I I loved I've always loved the Cubs, you know. Anytime we would travel, you can watch the Cubs on WK.

Speaker 2: 17:24

You moved to Chicago for the Cubs. That's what you're saying.

Speaker 3: 17:28

Regley filled. But but all that to say, like, you know, there was there was a threat there, even when not even thinking about it. And then so you fast forward like several years. I think um I had um been interested in church planting, and we were thinking about where we should move and go. And I had heard, you know, just I could, you know, it wasn't like the Lord was like making it super clear or plain. And so I had got some great advice from a guy, and he said, basically, when you're thinking about church planting, you know, something that um not the main thing, but one of the things if you're feeling stuck is is think about it in these terms. He said, like, you know, if you were gonna move to a city and you know, you weren't gonna be church planning, but you were gonna move to a city, like, and you would spend the rest of your life there, like, where would you want to do that? And um, and so that helped me like reframe a little bit about the conversation because I think you know, um, different people are called to different places for different reasons, and you know, people were giving me advice like, hey, go to, you know, go to the Bible build or go here, go here, go where it's sunny, go where it's sunny, um, all the different things. And so that was really helpful information. And so for me, like I, you know, I knew I wanted to live in a large city, I felt uh a unique calling to, you know, go to a place where you know is a place of influence and impact. Um, you know, a lot of the church playing circles that I was in, like a lot of people were kind of steering away from the cities and kind of going more towards like suburban areas or areas that would be, you know, more um receptive to a new church. And so yeah, I just you know, I've always believed this statement, like the local church is the hope of the world, you know, Jesus calls the local church the hope of the world. And so um, you know, if if our cities and places were needs hope, like why not go there? And so um all of that combined, I kind of made this like mental list of like, okay, I would want this and I would want this and I would want this. And you know, pretty much after we kind of made that list, there was only like three cities that really popped out to us, and we visited two of them. Um, and um, you know, the first one didn't make sense, and then um, you know, then we came here to Chicago. My wife's family, you know, lives in the area, so we would pop in some time to time, never spent a lot of time in the suburbs, but uh excuse me, um in the city, but only in the suburbs, and then I had a chance to like come downtown and like check it all out, and I just really the Lord really like highlighted this city for me. And so when I left that, I mean it would be for like weeks on end, like every time I would turn on the news something about Chicago, I think the Sox, oh excuse me, the uh the Cubs won the series that year, so it was like uh it was like they hadn't won it in you know a hundred plus years, and then they win it that year, and so there were many things that I just felt like the Lord kept highlighting and highlighting and highlighting. And so um I remember I was watching a movie um at a theater once, and um, at the beginning scene of the movie, it's like showing Chicago and all the amazing thing, the Bulls championships and all the stuff and parades and all the great things about Chicago, and it showed was that Blues Brothers? No, no, no, and it's this opening monologue, and he's like, Hey man, Chicago is amazing, all these things come from Chicago, and then it's kind of this like polarizing view, and it's like, hey, but Chicago, we need to talk. Like, there's this, you know, this kind of contrast of there's all this beautiful, beautiful things that come from Chicago, and Chicago is, but then there's this like um contrast of brokenness that exists in that, and so it was like I in that moment a light bulb kind of went off, and it was like, oh, like, you know, I know what people think about Chicago when they think about it, but there is a beauty here, but there's also a reality of brokenness here, and so it's like kind of you know, being at the intersection of both of those, and I really felt like called into that and really felt like, man, like this is like this is where we need to go. And so um, you know, um I'll let Sarah tell the rest of the her side of the story, but that's basically for me. I knew first, uh, like when it came to us, I knew first. Um, and so I was just like, you know, God, you're gonna have to like, you know, get that to her in a way that's compelling because I married a woman um, you know, who is um very strong. And so I wanted, you know, not for me to force her to do it, but I wanted it to be um, you know, both of us kind of work out anyway.

Speaker 1: 21:57

So yeah, he kept saying Chicago a lot and really, you know, kept saying, like, I really feel like this is where the Lord is calling us. And I was like, I really don't want to go back there. My brokenness is there, you know, my history is there. Um, you know, we can go anywhere else in the world, basically. And um, he's like, okay, well, like he said, he's like, I'm not gonna drag you. Um, but would you continue to pray? I'm like, of course. And so we took some time off work, came to the city, actually, the exact neighborhood we're in right now where we're, you know, planting, which is cool. But um, you know, we spent like a week here every day. Woke up, got coffee, you know, met the local people and just walked around and prayed all day. And we are leaving the trip, and I'm like, I'm sorry, like my heart has not changed. Like, I don't want to be here. You know, it's expensive, it's dangerous, it's dirty, it's my you know, my brokenness. I have all the reasons. And I I just really thought I wasn't gonna be able to do it. And so we get on the plane and we're leaving O'Hare, we're taking off, and all of a sudden I like look back down at the city, and I even telling you now I get goosebumps again from that moment, it was so special. I start weeping, and I feel the Lord just tell me, I'm bringing you back here to redeem you and to bring my redemption to your people, basically. Like, you know, and it just hit me all of a sudden, like, oh, of course, Lord, of course, you would bring me back to a place that tried to destroy me and use me to like help people in that same situation in the same exact place. And you know, the multifacets of redemption through that, like redeeming my story um and using it for good, you know, redeeming the the connection to the city, all the things. And so from that moment on, it was Chicago or nothing, right? It's like I'm not even interested in church planning if we don't start in this city. Um, so yeah, so it my journey was a little longer, but you know, the Lord got me there the way he needed to, and my heart was broke for the people.

Speaker 2: 23:47

Well, thanks for sharing that. That's a that's a cool, cool story. So you got there in 2019, yeah. Just in time for the pandemic, huh?

Speaker 1: 23:55

Which was perfect for church planning.

Speaker 3: 23:58

Just in time for the pandemic. Yeah, we move in, get settled, you know, getting ready to. I think even we like announced like, hey, new church coming to Chicago in the fall, like we're gonna spend like about a year ramping up and everything, like we had a team, we had funding, you know. So we're like ramping up and doing stuff, and so like in the middle of that was kind of when the pandemic hit. So I would say probably rough timeline, about uh, you know, between four to six months from when we we get there, that's when everything kind of starts happening in the world.

Speaker 2: 24:29

And it was what did that do to your plans?

Speaker 3: 24:32

Destroyed them, everything literally, it destroyed everything.

Speaker 1: 24:35

Everyone of our team moved out of the city within like you know, a month. Um, all of our people had promised support. A lot of them were churches, of course. Understandably, they didn't have a clue like if they would still be existing in six months, so they had to pull their commitments, which we totally understood. So it really wiped the slate clean for us when it came to kind of some of the things we had been building. Um, yeah. So definitely destroyed the plans, but that was that was turned out being a good thing. It didn't feel good at all.

Speaker 2: 25:04

Why did it turn out to be a good thing?

Speaker 1: 25:06

Yeah, we had to just rethink church um and church planting, you know, we we had a lot of good information and experience, you know. We had been in ministry for you know a decade before we even tried doing this, or maybe not a decade, but a long time. And um, yeah, you know, I think how we thought of church planting was what we had kind of seen in more suburban contexts or um different situations. And so it was very obvious, you know, the Lord was like, okay, everything you know, forget it. Everything you've learned, like stop. Um, so we had to just move to um really just uh like boots on the ground, right? Like, how do you love your actual neighbor, like the person who literally lives next door to you? How do you invite people over for a backyard meal because you can't do things inside in Chicago, you know, for this whole year? So it really reframed for us how do we start building a community of people who we want to introduce to Jesus and like help, you know, them walk with him. Um, yeah. So it really changed our our outlook. We could only do what we could do, and what we could do is we could sit around a table, we could invite people that didn't look like us, talk like us, think like us, um, and we could have conversations and share about the Lord in a not weird way or pushy way. And it was beautiful. Like I'm so grateful.

Speaker 3: 26:19

Yeah, I'd say for me, like the thing that it did was um, you know, when I when I think about you know the way God works, it's like sometimes we only have like the surface level uh understanding of what God is doing. But to me, what it did, which was a deeper thing, obviously all that that she said, but a deeper thing is is I think I feel like God did a work in our hearts. You know, it it's easy for people, you know, who have had any measure of success in say the business world or in the church world or anything like that to think you're gonna come in and be able to do this thing. And so I'm sure even for me, I'll speak. I know I came in with a level of like confidence based on you know my abilities and my giftings and the things I knew and the people I knew. Yeah, but it was really like a season of the Lord like um testing the like, hey, why are you doing this? And what's your motivation for doing this? Because I I find sometimes in church planting, you know, one of the most destructive things for us is uh when we have success that isn't rooted in this like reality of you know, the Lord is in it and actually building it. Um it's actually very detrimental if people are able to build things that without the Lord succeed without the Lord. And I I think you know, what what the Lord really did was like really this this point of humility and this point of like, you know, you need to like get back to why I called you to do this in the first place, not just um this looks cool or like because you saw this person or you did this. Um, and I think you know, in a in the social media culture that we live in, sometimes um church planning looks fun or sexy or like exciting, and or a way to enact like, well, I was at this church and I didn't get to do what I wanted to do, so I'm gonna go out and plan church. So it was really like a moment of like a gut check of like, did God call you to do this? And if he did, then you need to make sure your motivation for it never changes from like what the thing is. And so I feel like in that season, God just did a work in my heart that was like, you know, only he could do, and the humility that had to be present in that moment of like all the things we thought we were gonna do didn't happen, and it really had to be this moment um of inward turning. And and um honestly, yeah, it was a long season because as we know that that season extended into where we are now today, you know. I mean, we're we're sitting here, it's 2025, like you know, that was like five years ago, right? And so it took literally up until about four, uh, so like last year to like kind of you know learn that lesson. And so I always say it like this like um I think the thing that God is showing me in this season um is that God is far more concerned about what we're putting in than what we're giving out. Um, and a lot of people, you know, I hear these things in different contexts or leadership axioms or things people say, which I love, you know, and different times call for different things, but the thing the Lord has, you know, really taught me is is that like um the thing that I can control is the input. What am I putting in? What am I, how am I living my life? Like, you know, what is my um posture of my heart when it comes to all these things? You know, so many church planners want, you know, a thousand people on day one, and um, you know, that's cool and all, but at the end of the day, it's like, um, what are you doing internally, whether that be internal systems in your church or internal inside your heart, that is um, you know, making yourself promotable, right? Like God doesn't want To just uh give you a platform just for that to fall flat on his face because you don't have the character to sustain that. And so I'm just concerned so much about what we're putting in, because the Bible says, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth clearly speaks. And so it's like the fruit of what we are putting in will come out. And so if we're putting in the right stuff, if we're doing the right stuff, if we're thinking about the right stuff, then everything will figure itself out. But um, you know, in our American culture, sometimes that's like it's hard because we we we relegate success to a new a number, you know, if this is happening, then this is success. Yeah. And so I'm just like so concerned and obsessed with what are we doing, what are we putting inside, how are we living our lives, what's the posture of our heart when it comes to just being a son or daughter? And then now as a leader, I'm leading our church in a way that's saying, like, hey, like, you know, all the dreams, all the plans that you have in your heart, those are good things, but we shouldn't want the dream more than we should want the one who gives us the dream. And so that's just been my major concern. And um, I think my life has been much freer, much lighter when I've put my focus in, hey, what am I responsible for? And that's obedience and faithfulness. And um, it's been a beautiful um story that we've lived out lately.

Speaker 2: 31:17

Well, thank you for your uh your faithfulness and tenacity and hanging in there and working through all that for five years, four years. So you you just launched earlier this year. Yeah, going now.

Speaker 3: 31:30

Yeah, it's going great. Um, you know, one thing that is really cool is that I think um, you know, the Lord has showed us kind of through the process of planting that um there are so many different expressions of church and different ways you can go about it, context even. And so one of the ways we've seen this church kind of be birthed and planted is kind of in a way that uh really mimics the life cycle of a human, right? Like um, I know in in Western culture right now we have like we we do these big like launch days and we do these like crazy things, but um you know it's been a slow process, and so we we we had a baby, and so now we're um we're investing in it, we're pouring into it, we're we're trying to get it to crawl, we're trying to get it teach it words, we're trying to teach it things, show it affection and nurture it. And so that's kind of where we're at. And so it's been beautiful. We've been gathering with a group of people um now for the last little bit, and um, it's just actually we're what week 15? Yeah, week 15, and so it's been really great. We've just kind of been preaching through our values as a church and kind of seeing the Lord shape that and um, you know, I say it like this this season right now is really built for us to reach the people who are gonna help us reach the people. So we obviously have a goal to be a church that is outwardly focused, we're reaching the loss, we're helping see people come to faith. But I think um it's important, even in the life cycle of a human, like right, you got to do the stuff early on that builds the foundational things that helps you um be able to go out and do those things. And so, yeah, we are investing in trying to bring laborers to uh receive the harvest when that comes. And so, yeah, we we've been uh tapping people on the shoulder, meeting new people, here telling people about a new church, um, you know, um, and trying to get people involved. So it's been really fun. It's been messy, so like it's not the clean cut thing, but um, about 15 weeks ago, it was um two weeks before Pentecost Sunday, and um we had this opportunity that was really unique. And I just felt like as I read the scriptures, you know, the church was birthed out of that Pentecost experience. You know, Peter gets up and preaches the message, and uh the church grew that day. He said, repent and be baptized. And so we kind of were like inspired in that moment of like, hey, we have this opportunity. Um, you know, we could wait. We've been in this for long, we've been on the ground for years, as you know, and it's just like the time is now um to jump in. And you know, we took a step towards that. We didn't have everything figured out. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone at all. Unless the Lord is calling you to it, unless the Lord is calling you to it. But I think the last five years prepared us, you know, through all the trainings we've been through, all the we went through assessment, um, all of the ways that we've been able to learn more about ourselves and um self-awareness. It's it was really cool to be a part of um some of the leadership training and development um with Excel and and all that stuff that's really helpful. And it's kind of like, you know, back to the earlier theme, it's like, man, sometimes for me and my story, God has just taught me on-the-job training. And so I just said, you know what? We're gonna just jump out there and we're gonna learn while we do it. And it has been both beautiful and awesome. And then seeing God show up, yeah, have some really cool stories of some new things happening and some new opportunities, and our community is continuing to grow. And so, yeah, hoping to in the new year uh move into a bigger space because we're already like running out of space for kids and uh to help families and stuff like that. Uh, I remember like I think three weeks in, I was like, oh, like kids' ministry, like we'll probably only need a space for like, you know, like a do like you know, five, six kids. Like, we don't have many people with kids in our neighborhood. And uh the next Sunday, you know, we had like 12 kids, and I was like, man, we're having a kids revival.

Speaker 1: 35:22

So uh tiny little room.

Speaker 3: 35:25

So we believe in the next generation, and so we we really want to um invest in that. And so, yeah, in in the new year, we're looking at getting it into a new space. So we're kind of actually in in in a way, we're we're kind of doing the process over again. We're like, all right, we got to build a bigger team, we gotta raise more money, new systems. We have to get new systems in place in order to meet uh, you know, and respond to what God's that's the way it works, yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:49

Hey, thank you guys for sharing your story. How about a leadership tip from each of you? One leadership tip.

Speaker 1: 35:55

I'll go first, give Chris a little breath there. Um, I love all the stuff you say. You're such a good pastor person. Um, yeah, my biggest tip would be just focus on who God has specifically called you to be and what he's specifically asked you to do. Because for me, it's like it's so easy to get lost. And then, like Chris said, like the social media world. And and none of that is bad, right? Or maybe some of it's bad, but most of let's say most of it's not bad, you know. But God has a unique calling for everyone. And if we're trying to reach a calling that isn't ours or looks a different way, um, we're never gonna A accomplish it in the right ways, and B, it's gonna leave us like frustrated and unsatisfied. So my biggest leadership takeaway tip is just yeah, like spend enough time close to God to know specifically how he made you and specifically what he's asking you to do in this season and live there and don't worry about the other things, you know, pray for the other people, be blessed by the other things that exist, but don't try to be that. Um, and that may change, you know, stay so close to Jesus that when that kind of shifts, make sure that you're shifting right along with it.

Speaker 3: 37:00

Yeah. That's right. And kind of add a bonus to hers is I would say become um just so obsessed with um getting to know more about who God has made you to be. Um, I think you know that can maybe come off a little like weird or whatever. Maybe some people would think it's selfish to know a lot about yourself, but I think it is so important, like learning like what makes you tick, like what um what gets you frustrated. What because because in the planting process, these things come to the surface. And if you don't have the language to put to them, you don't know how to like really, you know, like scripture says, take every thought captive, you don't know how to like really frame those things. And I think one of the things that I've learned is is that the more that I've come to grow in self-awareness, the more that I've grown in my leadership, the more I've been able to walk confidently in who God's made me to be, and that's been amazing. But my second uh my actual tip that I would give people is um is something that I learned from uh a gentleman he planted a church in New York several years ago, and um they've done some awesome things ever since. But he said when uh he moved to New York from Australia, didn't know a soul in in the city, and he said the thing in his prayer was um, God, just give me one connection a day, and that connection can be, you know, uh maybe they got a friend, a friend of a friend, maybe it's like, you know, this person uh is a building owner, or this person has owns this business, or this you never know, but God give me one connection a day, and um and I've seen that just be so true, and God is faithful to be like to meet that, and I think it allows us and forces us to get our expectation of where it's like, man, you're like, hey, it's like eight o'clock at night, and I don't think I've had a connection today. So it's like, you know, it's just kind of getting your faith and moving in the direction of like, I believe God's gonna meet me and God's going to connect me with somebody. Maybe they'll join our team, but maybe they own a building where you know, maybe we can rent or have you know a meeting there or have spaces, or maybe you know, they know the principal at the school that you know can connect me and that can help me in a future situation. But regardless, just praying and and having an expectation um that God is gonna meet you in the Monday and just one connection a day, honestly, it may feel it isn't overwhelming, right? It's just a small thing. Um, and I think it's an actionable thing to put your faith towards.

Speaker 2: 39:28

So that's brilliant. That's brilliant, yeah. Wow. Well, the church is rhythm church in Chicago. How far from Wrigley Field are you?

Speaker 3: 39:37

Oh, yeah. On a good day, we're probably like 20 minutes away. But traffic these days is But how many miles is that only? It's only like three miles. Yeah, we're like three miles.

Speaker 1: 39:47

But it can take you, it can take you up to an hour on a game day to drive there.

Speaker 2: 39:50

So unless you bring your bike, you're right.

Speaker 1: 39:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:54

There you go. Great. Well, hey, thank you so much. Thanks for what you're doing. Thanks for uh your willingness to go and stay in Chicago and uh excited for you guys. So thanks so much.

Speaker 1: 40:07

Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker: 40:10

Thanks for joining the Leading Conversations Podcast. We hope that you found it both helpful and encouraging. And Extemble Leadership Network, our focus is on the church planter rather than the church. If you'd like to find out more about us, visit our webpage at ExtemilNetwork.org. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. See you next time with another leading conversation.