Welcome And Guest Introduction

Announcer 0:06

Welcome to the Leading Conversations Podcast, sponsored by the Excel Leadership Network. On each episode, JD Pering will have conversations with church planting pastors and leaders from around the country. You can learn more about how to connect with Excel at the end of this podcast. Let's join JD now and listen in on this leading conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Luke Allen is our special guest today on our Excel podcast. Luke is a church planter, church planting leader, someone who has planted churches out of his church, is the COO of Excel Leadership Network, is an incredible man, incredible leader. And we are pleased to have you with us today. Luke, thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Yeah, thanks, JD. And I think uh before we get started, I just want to thank uh you and your leadership for what you've done through Excel and just all the comrades we have all over the place doing the hard work of planting churches. It's uh it's a great company to keep for sure.

Growing Up In Old School Church Planting

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Well, that's uh great to hear. Um, I'm so glad you're with us. Hey, I want to start out. You were a church planting uh the son of a church planter. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Yeah, yeah, that's right on. Talk to just a little bit about what that was like. Um my dad did not grow up in a Christian home. Uh, his grandmother took him to church, got saved when he was a teenager. Um uh went to uh the war, Vietnam War, came back with his heart really stirred for Jesus, and uh felt a call to ministry to go plant churches. So he did a little Bible education, no uh network or denomination really, even parachuted in um to New Orleans and started planting churches. So um I was born in Hammond, and actually in Hammond, Louisiana, first plant. Uh, then we went to New Orleans and subsequent places after that. So all I ever knew growing up was church planting the old school way, move into a neighborhood, uh, start knocking on doors, winning people to Christ. Um, some of the earliest memories I have of me tagging along with dad as he was sharing the gospel door to door in our neighborhood and seeing supernatural encounters of you know, people who had said, you know, that they've been wrestling with this faith issue. And if God sent them a preacher to tell them about Jesus, they would come to faith. And so I just remember those very vividly. Um, so uh yeah, that's what it was like. We just my dad was kind of a serial church planter.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Now, from what I know of you, Luke, um, you know, your dad was a pastor, church planter, but you don't seem to have a very deep father wound. Uh which a lot of us are scared that our kids are gonna have, oh no, they're growing up their whole life is setting up and taking down on Sunday. How did your how'd your parents keep that from being a problem? I don't know, maybe you had a trouble being a PK, but I haven't picked that up from you.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

No, I loved every minute of it. Um uh, you know, that was some very difficult and hard times, but my parents are always included us in the process in the mission. Um, it was not them leaving us to go do ministry or mission, they brought us with them, and so that was all we ever got to know. We got to see some cool places and meet some incredible people. And I've got friends all over the US because of that and missionaries all over the world. Um, because we were just always, you know, it was just part of it. It was never let's leave the kids with the grandparents while we go do ministry work. We all did it together, and I saw that it was very real and genuine for my parents. Um, you know, if if you've been around the church for very long, you can see it's it's a pretty scary, it can be a pretty scary place. Um, what's the thing, the the phrase that uh sheep bite, um, and they do. Um, but um, just out of, I saw in my dad the two things that I really try to replicate in my life. He had this incredible amount of courage to say what needed to be said, no matter what the fallout was. And he had this incredible amount of compassion, no matter how bad it got and whatever they said about him, he still loved those people. Um, and so just as a little kid watching that, I was like, okay, well, this has got to be the real deal. And so that's what I saw from him. And then, you know, I don't know if this jumping ahead, but when I told him that I was planning on planting a church and ask him for his blessing, he tried to talk me out of it for a couple weeks. Um, I think just uh he just knew how what a slog it can be sometimes, you know, just so much work. Um, so yeah.

The Cracker Barrel Call To Plant

SPEAKER_01 5:04

How did that go? Your dad trying to talk you out of planting.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Well, I've I've met him at a cracker barrel. I was living in Dallas, and uh he was in uh in in still Louisiana, so we met halfway at a cracker barrel in Tyler, Texas, and you know, over the cornbread. Dude, imagine the country songs that have been written in that crack cracker barrel, you know. Um, so I was surprised. I told him I was uh I really felt I was working in a in a mega church as a youth pastor. I had 12 or 13 staff that worked under me. Um, it was a great job. And um, just from that, you know, he just really tried to talk me out of it. Um, he just said, you know, why would you spend all these years trying to plant something new when you've got offers to go take established churches and dah dah dah dah. And I just said that I think God's made me for this and um taught me my whole life has been training ground to go do this. So, you know, he gave me his blessing by the end of dinner, but um still still even after we planted, uh he would still send uh he would still send any uh like uh church vacancies, first Baptist wherever. Hey, you gotta send your resume in.

unknown 6:22

Wow.

Raising Kids Without Ministry Wounds

SPEAKER_01 6:24

That's interesting. Yeah. Just by the way, if you're listening to this and you're a church planter, um, we do get we get texts and emails all the time from First Baptist or First Press or wherever. If you're looking for another shot, another place to go, there's some openings. Just let us know. Before we get into your church planting story, you talk about your dad's courage and compassion. What have you done as a parent to help your kids stay close to Jesus and stay in the process and not have those wounds?

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Man, I I think uh JD, first of all, it's just um, you know, committing them to Jesus again and again. Uh, he loves them more than I ever could for sure. Um and they're and and just to be real strongly disciplined in uh time off and letting them know that they're first, um, before the church planting stuff, I want to uh love and honor them. And so uh they have a voice to the table, the same of the way that my dad did with us, including them in the story, asking them what they think about adding services or moving locations. Um my dad firmly believed in the power of prayer. And so when we would start a new church or when our living room got filled, I remember this time in New Orleans where we drove to this um to this uh strip club in the morning and it had, you know, it was it was closed for the day. And we sat in the parking lot in his old blue uh station wagon and we prayed that God would shut the strip club down and that it'd become a church. And I just remember as a I don't know, it's five or six, I don't know, I thought he was crazy, and we would just show up, you know, several mornings a week and just pray that God would shut it down. And sure enough, the strip club closed. We bought the place, rehabbed it, and made it a church. And I just just that uh belief that God's gonna do the supernatural was just like woven in our story, and we were Baptist on top of that, which you don't maybe you don't see a lot of that. And I just remember that, and I still look for those kind of God moments with our kids, with our kids and celebrating what God's doing and letting them know they have a part of the redemptive work, you know, um that we're doing and planting.

Getting The First Church Plant Out

SPEAKER_01 8:46

I I love this conversation. We've been talking about Cracker Bell in Tyler, Texas, strip club turned into a church. This is this is great. Now you've uh planted several churches out of uh Covenant there. How did I I've asked you this before, but how do you how'd you get that first one? How'd you talk the people into it? Uh because most churches, you know what, 95% of churches do not reproduce, and often it's just because they can't get that first one uh out there. How did you do that?

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Well, I looking back, we didn't do it very well. We made a lot of mistakes. Um, we just planted uh, you know, you've heard the term, we planted pregnant. We planted with this idea that we wanted to plant several churches. And so the guys we brought on staff initially kind of had that vision that we wanted to be a part of a um, you know, we wanted to be a catalytic church planting movement, and we want to be part of that, and so our part. And it's and a lot of the journey we went through through denominational networks was just so hard in doing that that we decided to stick it, stick the course, and blaze the trail for other people to come. And so it was preparing our people, it was the diligently planning and saving money for it, it was bringing guys on staff. Um, if you know me very long, church planters are my heroes. Um, they just really are, and so I brag on them every Sunday from the pulpit, and what an incredible work those guys are doing. Um, even some of these guys uh uh in our network, uh Scott Lackey and Raymond. I've I've talked about them from the stage, just this incredible work they're doing and starting churches during a pandemic. And so um, it's just a high value at our church. We talk about it, we spend a lot of money on it, um, so it in other places.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

That is really cool to hear. You've you've planted four churches out of Covenant, is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 10:49

Right, right. So far, four, uh-huh. And um uh two of those churches, the churches we planted in our sister city. Uh our church is in Bozier City across the river Streepport. We planted um a guy and then we planted uh Stephen Partaine and them in New Orleans, and both of them are kind of on the cusp of planting another church out of their church. So our church is pretty excited that we could actually see, you know, church planting grandbabies here pretty soon.

Must Dos For Multiplying Churches

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Wow. Wow. Hey, give us uh the top two or three uh tips you would suggest for a church that's thinking about multiplying. What are two or three must-do's or things you've done that really made a difference?

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Uh keep a kingdom perspective. It's just way bigger. Uh, what God's doing around the world and in your city is way bigger than you could ever do. Like we started thinking about the half a million people within a 20-mile radius of where we were. And, you know, if God filled our building 10 times on a Sunday, we couldn't reach all those people. We're gonna have to plant churches that plant churches so we can reach people. So it was a kingdom mindset um from the very beginning. Um, it was an empowering culture. Um, a lot of people are just real scared to let other people try to preach or teach, or man, anybody, an intern that comes and you know, has a fire, wants to do this. Uh I'll work with him and give him the stage and let him preach. So um we just started doing that and supporting them. So I think that's it. Just having the kingdom mindset, um, making the decision you're gonna. I I read some article, I think Ed Stetzer did, um, that said uh every pastor, he interviewed like four 400 pastors. This is maybe 10 years ago, and he asked them, um, you know, when will your church be ready to plant another church out of it? And uh, I don't know, like 90 something percent all said, we'll be ready when we grow 20 more. So the 100-person church, the 400-person church, and the 4,000-person church all thought they needed to grow 20% more before they planted another church. And we felt the same way. We were running about 250 when we when we, you know, sent 50 people out there, maybe more than maybe more than 50, and it gutted us a little bit. Um, but God filled in those holes uh with new people and new converts and blessed both works.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Uh you have thought about planting again.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Yes, I would love to plant again, yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Well, why not?

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Um God has wired me with this like small a apostolic gift of uh starting new things. I don't know if you call that spiritual entrepreneurship or whatever. Um, I've started several businesses uh even before ministry. Um, but my wife's a homebody and um she grew up in the same house her entire life. Um and she every time I like float the idea, she's like, nope, um, I'm not moving. So unless you're gonna like leave and go plant it and come back home during the week, then this is not a thing that we're doing. Um, and she, of course, would would do whatever God was leading us to do, but I think that's really grounded me from wanting to react by going to plant more churches, you know. Part part of that allure is probably like uh, you know, any church, the people just don't grow as fast as you want them to grow. And um, the church doesn't take the shape that you had intended it to take. And so I just want to go try it again. So, anyway, I've been at McCurrent Church 10 years. We haven't moved.

Serving Planters Through Excel Coaching

SPEAKER_01 14:32

For years, I, as somebody with a similar gifting and a similar spouse, just struggled with uh not going out and doing again. And I talked to my apostolic friends and they would all complain that it's hard to do, there's no models for this uh among the Anglo population in the US anyway. I know some of the different ethnic groups, they have uh the Catalytic church planters, but there's no models. Um, it finally hit me that if you're an apostle, you don't really complain about models, you just go make make crap up as you're moving. So you've made some steps to get your apostolic uh rock and roll fantasies uh out there. What what have you done to say, hey, I'm apostolic, I can still do this and have a home base here, so my wife's happy.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Yeah. Um uh JD, you and I had a conversation maybe four years ago at a Texas Rangers game, uh, the old stadium. We were sitting up there uh in the little all you can eat uh seats. Um, probably not enjoying the food, but we were sitting in the air condition, which is important in July.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

And I remember all you can eat, by the way, is just have food that nobody wants seconds.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

That's exactly what it is. Yes, yes. Uh only thing you can really stomach up there is the peanuts. Um I remember having that conversation with you and just saying, man, uh JD, if there's any way that I could partner with Excel in some way that I could help serve the other church planters uh that are planting these new churches, then I would love to have um some part in that. And so that's really where we started. And um, I just you know started coaching some guys and um and then coaching the R guys that we sent out, and then that became formal a couple of years ago by taking an actual position with Excel um on operations kind of side, but still I just I just find great joy in uh being an encourager and a cheerleader for these other guys. I just know how hard it is, um how alone you feel. And so um maybe 10 hours a week I'm on the phone with other planters, just listening and encouraging them, and that scratches that apostolic itch every time. And most times I send them money as soon as I hang up the phone. Um, so that just I just that's that I've I'm finding great uh comfort in um in in doing that.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

How did you practically make that happen?

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Well, I talked to you first, and you didn't have you didn't roll out any kind of like big uh like plan. You said, what do you want to do? And I threw out a few things and you said, Why don't you start doing that next week? And so I did. That's about how it went. I I did raise some money. I knew I was gonna have to take uh if I was gonna create 10 to 15 hours a week to do this, I was gonna have to take less salary from the church. So um I went and raised some funds um from some people that I knew love church planting and love me. Um they were happy to, you know, and they've still been going strong for a couple years. Raised part of my salary outside the church so that I could um free up some time to do this. And the church won because, you know, you still work basically two full-time jobs, what it feels like. Um church wins, we have a little extra money on that side of things to hire the staff, and then um, and then XL, um, you know, I and then I win because I get to do both things, and my wife wins because she gets to stay in the same city.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

So it's a win-win-win.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Win win win win. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Uh if somebody has an apostolic gift, what would you suggest to them then? If go ahead, what would you say?

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Well, I think some people are called to be serial church planters, and I would just, you know, ask them to really figure out what that looks like. Um, like you said, there is not a model. Um, and and it's not always enjoyable. Um, you know, you see Paws, he's a apostolic planter, maybe the key guy we look to, um, the apostle Paul. And, you know, in every letter, he's like, Man, my heart longs to be with the people he just left. Like he really loved those people. So I think that's part of it. Um uh just praying through exactly what God wants you to do, and uh just expanding your mindset to know that you can you can do both, you can still shepherd a local flock, and you can take steps and help becoming a catal, a catalytic church, uh part of a catalytic movement of church planting.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

I'm gonna ask you just to give us your best shot on leadership or anything, what you want to say. But before we do that, I do want to point out that we've talked about um we've talked about Cracker Barrel in Tyler, Texas. We've talked about the strip club that became a church, and if you've noticed uh Luke keeps calling it Excel. And um that's fine because it in the south it's called Excel. If you're in the west or west coast or the northeast, it's Excel. There's no right answer for that, but I I do want to say however you want to pronounce it is fine. But look, give us your best shot. What do you want to say to us as leaders? You got the floor.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Um I've been thinking a lot and um you know, reading a lot as we posture as a church to move in back to into somewhat of a of a normal um setting. A couple uh weeks ago, a lot of us planters got together in uh Arizona. We were talking about this, and um one of our Excel guys, Brian Becker, talked about this at our little, we were having little discussion tables um at an event about uh what we should expect as we move towards normalcy. And one of the things he said really stuck with me. I've been really thinking about that, is that um it's it's gonna all of us are gonna be replanting again. We're all replanting in some sense. People are gone, resources have changed, policies are different, people are different. So we're we're we're we're planting again, but yet this time we're planting when everybody's walking through a different stage of grief. Um, some people have lost people they love, some people are sad about the people that have uh, you know, left the faith. Um, and I think that's true. I think most people that I'm encountering in our church, um, which we need to be aware of, is you know, kind of what stage of grief. Things aren't always the same like it, like it used to be. So I think that's one of it. And two, the ultimate priority of our life as a leader is that we've got to be in love with Jesus. Um, that has got to drive everything we do. I'm a strategy guy. I've got whiteboards all over the office. I love to strategize and write and plan and brainstorm. But if we don't love Jesus, um, that's gonna be exposed. And I think that has been exposed. Through the pandemic, um, the stress that's been put on pastors, I mean, the crazy stress people have been walking in um has have exposed, and a lot of pastors have quit. And I just think so much of that could have been avoided with the pastor's heart, just loves Jesus and making loving Jesus like the most important thing that we're after. And the meetings can wait and the whiteboards can wait. We have got to get our heart connected to Jesus. I heard somebody say it like I don't remember who it was, um, somebody I was reading, that most of us live out of um a canal kind of posture where you know what God's doing is just kind of running through us instead of a reservoir. And I like that, that reservoir kind of mentality where we spend time in the presence of God for so long that it just overflows everywhere that we go. And that that's what's gonna get us through uh this trying season and the next one that's to come. When Jesus restored Peter, that was his question, right? If you love me, well then go feed my sheep. And I feel like most leaders I've worked for and myself, what a great temptation it is, even for me, is to go get a lot of ministry done without ever seeking the heart of God in the matter, without walking with him. And so that's what I just have to reorient my own vision every day is you know, um, spending time in the secret place, um, following after the heart of God. And then from that, just this overflow of joy takes over my life, and then I can do ministry from that. And I just think that's how ministry is supposed to work. It's how it worked at the Apostle Paul, it's how it worked with the early church. The explosion of joy is what grew the church, not their, you know, sound doctrine. Sound doctrine is important, of course, but walking with Jesus and uh and loving him, I think is the is the source to all of this.

A Final Test Of Calling

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Thank you so much, Luke. That is an incredible reminder. And what I really appreciate about you is you live that out, you're the real deal. Um, the legacy of your father, the courage, the compassion. And uh just really appreciate that. And I think we're just gonna make a switch. Um, from now on, we're gonna start doing our discovery centers at cracker barrels where we sit down and say, is this really what you want to do?

SPEAKER_02 24:30

It's a great question. And that, you know, later I asked my dad about that very thing. I asked him, I was like, Dad, you know, 10 years in, uh, five years in, why'd you try to talk me out of that? And he just said, son, I knew if I could talk you out of it, you weren't gonna make it anyway. If I could talk you out of it, you weren't gonna survive um uh the damage that ministry and church planting does. And so uh that was his strategy, and I guess it worked.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Well, thank you. Thank you for being part of Excel and Excel.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

I've never noticed that people say it different. I think it's just the speed at which I talk is how how I how I pronounce it.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Yeah, thank you, JD.

How To Connect With Excel

Announcer 25:14

Thanks for joining the Leading Conversations Podcast. We hope that you found it both helpful and encouraging. At Excel Leadership Network, our focus is on the church planter rather than the church. If you'd like to find out more about us, visit our webpage at excelnetwork.org. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. See you next time with another leading conversation.