Welcome And What To Expect

Announcer 0:06

Welcome to the Leading Conversations Podcast, sponsored by the Excel Leadership Network. On each episode, JD and Perry will have conversations with church planting pastors and leaders from around the country. You can learn more about how to connect with Excel at the end of this podcast. Let's join JD now and listen in on this leading conversation.

J.D. Pearring 0:29

Welcome to another edition of Excel's Leading Conversations Podcast. Thanks to John Wong, who is with us today. John, the great, the mighty John Wong from Vancouver, Canada, is with us. So thanks for being here, John. Thank you for having me. Hey, tell us something good about Vancouver.

Jon Wong 0:52

Vancouver is a destination for a lot of people. It is a beautiful city. It's right on the west coast of Canada. We get a ton of tourists coming through. So very it's a very diverse multicultural city. That's why BC is called Beautiful British Columbia.

J.D. Pearring 1:24

Oh, I didn't I didn't know that. Yeah. Next time we visit uh the Vancouver area, what's one thing we need to check out?

Jon Wong 1:34

Um I would say, I don't know if you've done this, the this, the walk around the seawall downtown. Uh it's a really gorgeous walk. Uh, you're in one of the biggest kind of natural preservation park in the middle of a city. Um and so I would say do the seawall if you have time, take go up to North Vancouver and and uh go see the suspension bridges. There's a free one, and then there's a one that you pay for, which is the Capolano. Uh but Lynn Valley does does its job. Uh the suspension bridges take you right into the middle of the mountain, into the forest. Uh and so those are probably major highlights for a lot of tourists that come through. Uh, and then if you have the time to drive up, take that drive up to Whistler. Um the the Cedar Sky Highway is gorgeous. Uh, you're you're driving along the coast all the way up into the mountains.

J.D. Pearring 2:30

How far is that to Whistler?

Jon Wong 2:31

Whistler, I would say it's about about an hour and a half to two hours, depending on traffic.

J.D. Pearring 2:36

Okay, great. Well, you just uh added to my to-do list, so thank you.

Jon Wong 2:42

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to check out even along the highway. Uh, there's like the Sea to Sky gondola, there's uh waterfalls and everything all the way up and through Squam Mission. So it's a beautiful drive.

Third Culture Identity And Belonging

J.D. Pearring 2:54

Well, good. Well, I I need to schedule another trip. Hey, tell us the story, John Long. Growing up, how did you uh turn your life to Jesus?

Drugs Arrests And Teen Challenge

Rebuilding Faith Through Campus Ministry

Jon Wong 3:05

Well, I was I was born into a Christian family. Uh so when I was born, my parents just became Christians uh probably right before I I was born. They were um kind of semi-practicing Catholics when they first got married, uh and then they switched to Protestantism, and then I I was born into a Christian household. Uh and so my upbringing, um, I I was born and raised in Edmondson, Alberta. And so uh for me, growing up in the prairies in the in the 80s, uh when I would say Canada wasn't as diverse back then as it is now. Um and so I I think a lot of my childhood was just trying to fit in. Uh being of of of Chinese descent, uh you you you learn to really try to just assimilate. Uh, you don't want to stick out, you don't want to stand out. Uh, but at the same time, because I look different from all my friends, like I was the only Asian kid in in my class. Uh, I was one of three Asian kids in in my entire school. Uh, and the other two I was related to is my sister and my cousin. And so uh so growing up, you're you're you're when when you're physically on in the for your physical appearance is different from everybody else, you try to do whatever you can to to fit into that that that space. And so I would say growing up, um it's it's that idea of that third culture, right? It's not you're not really Chinese, you're not really Canadian, uh, so you're kind of in this in-between culture, uh, which is what we call the third culture. Uh, because the Canadians, they they see you as different, right? They they label you as different just because of my appearance. And then at home, our are I mean, my parents spoke Chinese, but at the same time, it's it wasn't like we had a ton of Chinese culture because we didn't really have the access of Chinese culture to it during that time. And so there was the food, uh, and then we did a little bit of the celebration with family, but uh access wasn't really there back then. Uh to like it's it's not like now where you could just turn on YouTube and find like the the all the celebrations and all the explanations and and all that stuff. And so I would say growing up, there was all always a little bit of an identity struggle. Um and so uh being part of this third culture was was different. And I I would say as an adult, I really appreciated, but as a kid, I really hated it. Um I didn't I didn't really want to I I struggled with my Chinese identity, let's just say that. Uh just because I felt like why do I have to work so much harder to fit in with my peers than than everybody else? Um and so uh come into middle school to junior high is what we call it in Alberta. Uh junior high, I met some friends that look like me because it was a bigger school, uh, that that identified as Chinese, um, but were also in that same boat as me, where they they they were born in Canada. Uh and so for me, it was so important for me to to become friends with them. But sometimes you become so desperate to become friends, you would do anything and you would compromise everything to call that junior high. Yeah, yeah, to to feel like you fit in. So um, unfortunately, the friends that I made, they were all not great influences. Uh, and so because of that, um I got into some trouble um just to fit in, um, and got involved in in things that I shouldn't get involved in. And so um I started it that was my journey in through into high school. Uh it was about a five-year journey of yeah, trying to figure out how do I fit into this and how do I leave what I know. And so even knowing that and having the foundations of what my parents taught me through church and through scripture and through the Bible, but saying, you know what, fitting in is more important to me than anything that they've ever taught me. And so I went into a place where uh I started um abusing just with narcotics, uh, and because of that, I I I began selling and running uh for this group uh and I got pretty deep into it. And so by the time I was uh 16, I've been arrested twice, uh, spent some time in juvenile detention. Um yeah, basically I was addicted to to heroin, to cocaine, uh, to speed. Uh and that was all by the time I was 16. And uh God God's grace I would say has been through all that, even though at the time I would say it didn't feel like it. In hindsight, now I see just God's hand and his protection through through my life. Uh but at the time um yeah, I I didn't see it. By the time my parents inter intervened, uh they basically just threw me into teen challenge and just said, you just need to get fixed. And so I was at team at a teen challenge facility for basically the remainder of my grade 12 year old uh before I graduated from from high school. And so I was at a facility there getting being rehabilitated and uh was able to graduate high school, uh but spent some time there struggling. Uh and and in many ways feeling I let down my parents, but more importantly, I felt like I let down myself. Uh but it was also there that God really spoke, that God really uh revealed himself and his grace, his mercy uh fell on me in ways that I can't even describe. Um and so coming out of teen challenge, going to university, still trying to figure out what my faith is, um, knowing that God exists, but not really having a hard time with Christianity. I just always felt that people at church were hypocrites. I always felt that people at church were they would they would say one thing and then they would do something else. And so I I I had I I struggled with the idea of church. Uh I I I believed in who God was. I believed that Jesus uh saved me in many ways, but I didn't want to have anything to do with the church. Um but it was a university that I have some friends really helped me get involved with the ministry called Campus Crusade. At the time it was called Campus Crusade. I uh now it's the name has changed uh many times here in in in in Canada they're called Power to Change now. But it was the university ministry of part of of uh Campus Crusade that really uh gave me a place to explore my faith without interacting with church. And uh it was there that that uh I guess I found a solid Christian community uh that yeah, I I was taken away from my old lifestyle. I I moved to another city to go to use to go to university. Uh I think all of that was God's plan. Uh He needed to move me and take me away from my current situation at Edmondson, move me to Winnipeg, which is two two provinces over. Uh and provinces in Canada is way bigger than in the States, so it's more like, yeah. Uh and so I I did my degree in a place where it was like a natural fresh start for me. Uh and so because of all that, that really captured me through my university years.

J.D. Pearring 12:24

Um how did how did ministry happen? I mean, uh obviously if you're involved in crew power to change, is that what it's called there?

Jon Wong 12:32

Yeah, power to change is what it's called in the crew here in the U.S.

J.D. Pearring 12:35

now. And I I mean I came to Christ through that group as well. And ministry is kind of a fairly natural option, but uh, how did that work for you?

Urban Ministry Development And The Church

Jon Wong 12:44

I actually didn't want to go into ministry to begin with. Like that was not that was not something that I ever thought of for myself. Uh it's actually the last thing I ever thought of myself, especially being a pastor and and and seeing that that I am in pastoral ministry right now, it's it is the grace of God, it is the hand of God. But I I so much of it is just falling in love more and more with Jesus. And so I would say when I graduated, so I graduated with a bachelor's of architecture and I I I landed an internship and I landed a job right out of right out of school. Uh, and so it was an incredible opportunity. Uh, I worked for this firm for for two years. Uh I was moving up, I I was doing well in it. Uh, but somehow God just interjected it. Uh I got to meet a I got to so one of the things that we have in in in Canada is the thing that's called Missions Fest, and it moves through the every city, every major city in Canada. And so Missions Fest at the time was trying to recruit um kind of younger professionals to be on their board of directors. And somehow my name got put in. They called me, they asked me. Uh, I was I was a fresh grad, I was, but I was a professional. I was a professional in the city. Uh, and so they they they wanted to bring some young young life into it so that uh because missions fest, I guess, in in some sense, they they thought it was feeling to it was starting to feel a little old. And so uh they invited me to be part of this, and my my role was to to host the main speaker. That was my role, and the main speaker that year was Tony Campolo, and so uh I had to go to the airport to pick him up. I uh uh basically I was at his beck and call, because basically, like whatever he needed, I was the person to handle it for him. And so um I but one of the one of the cool things was that weekend, which was my my birthday weekend, was also Tony Kimpo's weekend, and we've actually found out that we actually had the same birthday, and so we really connected uh because of that. And uh like I was turning 22, he was turning 70, pretty pretty big gap, but uh it was one of those things that we really connected. But we because I was hosting him, I got to talk to him a lot, and uh I didn't really know who he was at the time, um, because I wasn't really that involved in the Christian circle at the at the time. Uh but he just in in all those moments when I'm driving him back and forth from the venue when I'm uh doing those little things, in those moments, he he really just pastored me and talked to me. And he he challenged me and he said, What are you what is God calling you in terms of what you're doing with your life? And I'm just like, Well, I just started this career. It's I I I I hope to become uh uh a senior architect or even a principal architect at one day, because at that point I was still in a junior position. Uh and so he's just like, but is that is that what God wants you to do? And I said, I I I think so. And he's just like, what if I challenge you to just give one year? Just one year to to do something different, something drastic, something uh it doesn't mean that this is what you're gonna do for the rest of your life, but just give one year to say yes to God and say, I'm going to go and serve the poorest of the poor. And I said, Yeah, okay, let's let's do it. Uh it so happened that that year I was placed on a government project as well as with my firm that we were uh building kind of this youth facility. And the youth facility was geared towards uh the foster system in in Alberta. And so I got to talk to a lot of the social workers in their planning and and in the design work in terms of what their needs are. Uh got to talk to a lot of the kids that were using the facility. Uh so I was working on this design and it really gave me life in a way that I never knew that that it would. And so with Tony's challenge and working on this project, it kind of came together where I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna give a gear. Uh so I said, okay, let's do it. And I joined up with one of his uh one of the organizations that's under his umbrella, which was called the EAPPA at the time. Uh, and the organization was called Missions Fest. Uh, not Missions Fest. Called Mission Year. This is a long time ago. So there's there's things that that are are not that clear anymore. But it was called Mission Year. Uh, one of the things for me, because I was Canadian going into Mission Year, is that uh I couldn't just go in to do mission because the US government, the visa issues, and all that kind of stuff. And so what I ended up doing was I got a student visa to go into mission year. And so I applied to uh I was I was put into the city of Chicago, and so I applied to the Chicago schools that were there. Uh Trinity, my application was too late, so they couldn't take me, but Moody took me. And so I went to Moody while I was doing this mission year thing, and things just shifted from that point, and it propelled me into ministry. But one of the things that I I did was I was like, I love urban ministry, I love working with the poor, I love serving people, but I never want to go into church because I still had a lot of that church baggage.

J.D. Pearring 19:06

Oh, okay.

Jon Wong 19:08

And so I did my master's, I did fin after the one year I did finish my master's. I I stayed for another year to finish my master's in Chicago. I did a uh MA in urban in urban ministries, uh, because I didn't want to do church. Like I church was still the last thing I wanted to do. And so finished my master's, uh, joined up with another Tony Campbell ministry called Urban Promise. Uh and when I joined up with Urban Promise, I first applied to Toronto to uh to work at Urban Promise Toronto, but then Urban Promise came back to me. He's like, hey, actually, we need someone to to we need someone to, we have positions in Vancouver that we need to cover. Are you willing to move to Vancouver? Now, Toronto and Vancouver are on opposite sides of the country. And I was living in Chicago at the time. For me to go to Toronto was actually fairly close. But for me to move to Vancouver was, and to be honest with you, there was never really anything that was pulling me towards Vancouver. But I said, you know what? I've already taken all these steps with God. Let's just trust God for this, too. And so I said, yes, I came to Vancouver, worked with Urban Promise, finished off my thesis here. Uh, and it was in that time that God just opened us just doors into ministry. And so from Urban Promise, which was local ministries, working with uh kids and families in kind of under-resourced neighborhoods, uh opened up another door for me to work into international development. And so I did that for two years as well, uh, working in uh Sudan, working in Ethiopia, Kenya, uh, having traveled to Jordan, um, in that world of humanitarian aid uh and and to do development work. But the more that I was in development work, the more that I saw that as I'm working for these para-church organizations and these aid developments, the more I saw that this is actually work that the church needs to be doing. It's not if the church was involved and participating in this, and I was studying the Bible, I was reading the Bible, and the Bible was very clear that these are the things that we're supposed to be doing. Uh, but why isn't the church doing it? Why are we outsourcing this to kind of these parachurch organizations? And then it's coming to that realization, it's just like this is the ministry of the church. Um and so somehow I that bridged me into church ministry and bridging, trying to bridge that international development. Side of things into church ministry. So I became this liaison for the church. And then it kind of just morphed and changed. And 20 years later now I'm I'm a pastor. Not by not, I would say that it wasn't it wasn't a decision to be like, I'm going to be a pastor, but it was more little steps of obedience along the way that brought me to this place. Little steps of just trusting God, putting my faith in what He's doing, and walking alongside what He's doing that brought me to this place. And so I would not say that this was a conscious decision, nor was it ever a goal. But what I'm doing right now are little steps of faith and steps of obedience.

J.D. Pearring 22:57

Well, thank you for sharing that. That's you know, that's the way it is. You just take that next step, and next thing you know, you're pastoring in Vancouver.

How John Became Senior Pastor

Jon Wong 23:05

Yeah.

J.D. Pearring 23:06

Um you did not plant this church.

Jon Wong 23:11

No, I did not plant this church. Uh we the the when I joined this church, uh, it was still fairly new. Uh so it started in 2003, uh, and I joined up with the church in 2006, uh, but I didn't officially join into staff until 2009.

J.D. Pearring 23:34

Okay, and how did you become the pastor?

Jon Wong 23:37

Well, like I said, I was kind of involved in the international development side of things, and this church was very involved in uh has always been involved in sending out missionaries and doing international work. And so I I was a member of the church, and and being a part of uh this humanitarian organization, I kind of based my office out of out of the church. Uh and then yet things happened and they needed help. And I said, Yeah, I'll step in and I'll hope. And then next thing you know, I'm I'm pastoring. I took a pastoring role in the church as the church was growing, and then it went from starting off as a youth pastor, moved into associate, and then now I'm the senior pastor. And uh it's it's been a journey. It's been yeah, I honestly I don't I wouldn't be able to answer you in terms of how I got here. Uh because it it wasn't something that just happened, it it happened over a long period of time.

J.D. Pearring 24:51

Sure, yeah. And you've been uh you've been pastor now for how long?

Jon Wong 24:58

So I would say I started as a part-time youth pastor in 2009. Uh and then and when I moved into the associate position, that was I don't know, 2013. And then I took over as singer in 2000, 2022.

J.D. Pearring 25:28

Okay, great, great, great. Now, um uh my daughter goes to your church with her husband. Say something nice about them because they'll probably listen to this.

Jon Wong 25:38

I mean, Wyson and Trisha are people that uh I love. They are incredible. I mean, they they they work in ministry themselves, right? Uh they work with uh IBCF. I've known Trisha. Well, I I've known Trisha through Wyson. Uh Wyson I've known since we were like eight or nine years old. So Wyson, yeah, we grew up in the same city in the same church. Uh and so Wayson and I have known each other for a very long time. Um we we didn't really, we were we we had very different lifestyles. And so we weren't ever really great friends, I would say, but we kind of we've always known of each other. Uh and so when they started coming to the church and when they moved to Vancouver uh and started coming to Five Stones, uh it was it was it was in a way, I would say that when Wyson started coming to Five Stones, it bridge it kind of two worlds colliding because Wayson comes from a church where I have a lot of church baggage from. And so him coming, I was just like, oh, how is he gonna see me? How is he going to perceive me in terms of my role here as a pastor now? Like we haven't seen each other in so many years because we kind of parted ways. Um, I went to Winnipeg and there wasn't there wasn't a lot of uh I would say time that was spent together in that space. But um yeah, coming together, him being in ministry, me being in ministry was just this fresh start. Uh Trisha, uh, as I got to know her, uh, just even her her background. I mean, they're both leaders in the church. Trisha's one of the elders uh here that's that serves alongside me uh as one of the elders. And then uh Wayson is part of our leadership, and and uh he he develops our discipleship track with me. And so both of them are are people that I I depend on, people that I I know that I could rely on as I as we're we're building this church together, as we're we're leading this church together. Uh I would never lead this church without others. Um that that's just not how it how it works. Uh God builds a church. We pray together, we sit together, and we ask God, what are we supposed to do? And Trisha and Wyson bring in perspectives and and their prayers, and they bring in their their leadership in a way that I absolutely appreciate and need.

J.D. Pearring 28:38

Well, they should they should owe you a lunch at least for saying those nice. Hey, give us a leadership tip. Well, first of all, tell me what five five stones, where that came from. I mean, I think I have an idea, but uh five stones, I haven't heard that I haven't heard that name for a church before. And then give us a leadership tip.

Leadership Tip Build A Prayer Life

Jon Wong 29:02

Well, five stones is not it's not an original name. That's that's something I can say. There's there's several five stones in the states already. Um but five stones comes from the story of David and Goliath. Uh, that as churches, uh, there are giants that were conquering. Uh, and uh the number of five is the number of grace, the five also is the the five offices of of a church, uh the apostle, uh, prophet, evangelist, shepherd, and teacher aspect of of it. So uh for us, we are a five-fold church uh in that sense. Um, and so that's that's kind of where the name comes from. Uh but um yeah, our our our story, the David and Goliath story gives us a lot of hope, a lot of strength in terms of what we're doing here in the city. Uh just David's heart after God is what uh I want our church to be, is just uh that our church is is after God's heart. And so uh yeah, there that's that's kind of where our name comes from. Uh terms of leadership tip. I would say my biggest and greatest leadership tip, and this is something that I've learned throughout throughout my years uh in pastoring, I would say the the best tip I could be is pray. Pray as hard as you can, develop that prayer life. And I would say that I wish somebody told me that when I was younger. I wish somebody told me that when I was a uh a younger pastor, is to just develop your prayer life. Uh I think the more you pray, the more you know God's heart, the more you pray, the more you know what God is doing, the more you pray the strategies will come, the more you pray the Holy Spirit moves in a way where you get to participate with God and what he's building his church to become. And so I would say the biggest leadership tip that I can give anyone is to develop your prayer life, your personal prayer life.

J.D. Pearring 31:25

Well, I mean, that's a that's a wonderful um tip. Can you can you just give me a minute on what that looks like for you and developing your prayer life?

Jon Wong 31:35

Yeah, I mean, to be honest with you, I would say my prayer life was pretty weak as a new pastor. Um, I would pray, I would go to the prayer meetings, uh, I would pray during my devotionals, and and and it was more of like a routine, it was more of uh something that I needed to do, right? Uh I was never against prayer, but I would say that my prayer life was was pretty stagnant in the fact that uh I just came to God with my request and came to God out of duty more than out of a relationship. And so I would say that prayer for me was nobody, I mean, you know how the church tells us to pray, and even in seminary, they there's that spiritual formation of prayer. Uh but it was one of those things where it is like, okay, this is just something that we need to do. And you you in your head you know and you you acknowledge the fact that this is uh a discipline in in how you build your relationship with God. But I would say for me, it was still a very one-sided relationship where I would just go to God in prayer uh for to pray for things that I I felt like I needed to pray for. But I would say prayer is more than that. Prayer is sitting at the foot of God and saying, God, God teach me, reveal to me your heart, your mind, help me intercede the way that you want to intercede. Help me stand in the place where where my prayers are not are not just things that I need, but my prayers is the heart of God. That I could pray prophetically into situations and pray for healing and and the deliverance of people, for reconciliation, for restoration. Uh prayer for me now is not a an activity that I do, but more of a converse, uh, an ongoing conversation that I have with God. Uh, so it's even when I wake up, the first thing to do is just thank you, God, for giving me breath in my lungs and for my heart to be beating so that I could live for you alone. And it's it sets my day, it's what starts me off. Um but then it it continues as I have young kids, and so we're we're getting ready for helping them get ready for school, and and even in those moments where you're you're dressing them or packing their lunches, you you pray over them, and yeah, you're talking, but prayer is just have just being aware of God with you all the time. Uh and then there's there's the the importance of just that devotional prayer too. So the quiet time uh with God and study of scripture and and and praying, and I believe that God a lot of my prayer time actually is just listening. Uh it's reading, it's listening, it's praying in tongues. Uh corporately I don't really pray in tongues that that much, but in my private I I pray in tongues more because mainly because it it's my worship unto God. Uh it's it's my place of where where God where sometimes you know when you don't have the words to say that uh tongues express a heart uh kind of feel. Uh and expresses it gives you a language to speak that connects you to God. Um and so I would say that there's the time for that private private prayer time with God and it's listening to his to see what what he's doing. Um I would say a lot of that time is also just his comfort, his his assurance, his encouragement. Uh it's where my anxieties go down. It's it's that space where uh my worries are not there. Uh because those worries come back really quick throughout the day. Like there's so many things for us to worry about. Uh but it's it's yeah, it's crying, it's that that space of crying out to God and knowing that God will hear, right? Like Jeremiah 33, like uh cry out to me and I will hear, and then I will reveal to you the hidden mysteries of things that you don't know. Uh that's that's what prayer is. Uh it's yeah.

J.D. Pearring 36:47

Well, well, thank you for sharing that. That's uh that I mean that's a obviously it's a good tip, but I appreciate your vulnerability and just sharing what you do and how that's worked for you. Hey, um thanks so much for coming on. Thank you for taking care of my daughter and son-in-law. Yeah, it's a pleasure. Grandkids, and thank you for telling your story.

Jon Wong 37:09

Yeah, thank you for having me. Thank you for uh giving me this opportunity.

Announcer 37:15

Thanks for joining the Leading Conversations Podcast. We hope that you found it both helpful and encouraging. At Excel Leadership Network, our focus is on the church planter rather than the church. If you'd like to find out more about us, visit our webpage at Excelnetwork.org. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. See you next time with another Leading Conversation.