Classic Episode Welcome

Announcer 0:01

Welcome to A Leading Conversations Classic Podcast. We've searched through our early episodes to find some of the best just for you. If you've been with us from the beginning, you may have heard some of these. If you haven't, enjoy this classic episode. Welcome to the Leading Conversations Podcast, sponsored by the Excel Leadership Network. On each episode, JD Perrin will have conversations with church planting pastors and leaders from around the country. You can learn more about how to connect with Excel at the end of this podcast. Let's join JD now and listen in on this Leading Conversation.

From Football To Following Jesus

J.D. Pearring 0:46

We are privileged to have with us the great PT, Paul Taylor, with us from Mason, Ohio today. Paul, thanks for being on the podcast on the link today.

Paul Taylor 0:57

Thanks for having me. Honored, JD, always.

J.D. Pearring 1:00

Hey, I know a lot about your story, but one thing that uh hit me, and I really want to ask you to fill in some of the blanks, is I know you were on the fast track for being an NFL player. Uh, that was your goal, your desire. You're in college, you're playing at a major major college, not Pac-12, UCLA or anything, but other and other second choice, you know. And when you came to Christ, that kind of got changed, and uh, you didn't change physically. So can you talk a little bit about that?

Paul Taylor 1:32

That changed. Yes, there were physical changes for sure. Um, I was a pretty stereotypical D1 uh offensive lineman uh without Christ. A lot of uh a lot of partying. Um you know, the the whole gamut of what you would think of that some of you may or may not have been through. Uh, but you know, my I I think I had multiple gods, primarily a hedonist was was number one, but underneath that were uh, you know, food, football. Uh you know, you know, I wanted to be a doctor and and do a little part-time pre-med too. That you, you know, two two chemistry classes a semester usually doesn't get you into med school. But uh I had uh I I probably had 30, 35 pounds of uh beer and pizza on my body to maintain my 305 playing weight. And I I came to Christ December the 4th of 1994. And within uh four weeks, it was the first time we hadn't been to a bowl game. Uh in my I was a junior uh academically a red shirt sophomore. So we had been to the independence bowl and one and went nine and three my my redshirt year. Then we beat Ohio State 10 and 2. Um, my my redshirt freshman year when I played, started eight games that year as a freshman. And uh and then I had my life basically fell apart, get saved radically, and lost 30 pounds over that Christmas break. So I I came back, um, and my coaches were not happy about that. And uh just simply from caloric intake, I think. You know, I stopped, I stopped drinking, stopped eating, watched an infomercial. Some of you may remember this, those of you who are older that the infomercials are uh kind of like Instagram ads, but 30 minutes. And uh there was uh this lady, if you remember the short blonde-haired lady, uh spiky blonde hair, who would she would hold piles of rice cakes and carrots and say, you can eat this or you can eat this. I had never heard of a calorie, a fat gram, anything. This is 1993. I see that and I'm going, oh my gosh. So I may have eaten some rice cakes during that that Christmas break as well. So I don't know if that contributed to it or not, but yeah. So I I actually uh came back and I was given cases of insure, which is uh uh really there were no pre-packaged protein drinks back then, uh, none of that. Creatin hadn't even hit the scene. So it was you just had to eat a lot if you wanted to maintain weight. So my coaches were handing me cases of insure, and but you know, I knew JD immediately uh within I would say days after coming to Christ that I I was called to ministry. You know, I didn't know what that looked like, I just knew that I had to tell people about Jesus and if the NFL was a platform to give me a voice and a louder voice, and I was all about that. Um, and and still had a

The Injury That Redirects A Life

Paul Taylor 4:40

couple years uh left in my career after that. And there's a lot of other details that go into the it wasn't necessarily that I wouldn't have gone to the NFL. Um in that summer, six months into my my journey with Christ, I did a nine-week stint in Colorado Springs with Athletes in Action on a summer project doing slow-mo football. If anybody knows what that is, um it's a you you dress up in a bunch of crazy outfits. Someone actually just posted a picture from that summer online recently, and I saw myself, you know, uh you dress up like idiots. You go out in a massively packed park on the 4th of July, and you do everything in slow motion to draw a crowd. People just are looking at you, wondering what's going on, and then you go out and typical campus crusade for Christ or or what's crew style, you go out and share your faith and do the four spiritual laws. So I I actually blew out my knee doing that slow motion football.

J.D. Pearring 5:32

Wow.

Paul Taylor 5:33

Uh, right after I came to Christ. So here I am, six months. It was kind of a miraculous story of even my coach was nicknamed Satan, my position coach. And I had these people praying and fasting about leaving for the summer. You didn't leave for the summer if you were a starter, it was just not an option. So for me to be gone the entire summer was like it was actually a really monumental faith builder for my spiritual journey. Was the coach said, sure, go. Because I said, you know, I had all my data. I'm gonna be with 25 athletes from around the nation. We're gonna be working and training and prepping and growing spiritually and in leadership. And he's like, Yeah, go. And then I tear my knee. So um that was a setback, obviously. It was a bucket handle cartilage tear. For those of you who are into orthopedics, it's at that season normally, if you had a major cartilage tear, uh, that's why you got a lot of guys in the NFL with nine, 10 surgeries. They just clean it out, come back three to four weeks, play again, get a total knee replacement by the age of 40. And uh, Colorado State's team doctor, my my team doctor, my head coach wanted me to come back, fly back, get the surgery, so I'd be ready for the fall. And uh their team doctor looked at it. I said, I want to stay. I really believe God's called me to be here this entire summer. So they worked together and they they had a new procedure that repaired the cartilage instead of taking it out. And uh, you know, all these things are just pieces of the of the story of how God gets you where he wants to get you. And what sometimes looks like a setback is actually a definer in your life, right? So for me, that was a decision where the doctor said, Do you want, do you want to walk uh at age 40 with some cartilage left in your knee? Because I can take this out, you'll have about 20% of your cartilage left, you'll be bone on bone, and by the time you're 40, you're gonna need a knee replacement. Or we can repair it, you keep 100% of your cartilage, and uh you have a three-month recovery instead of a three to four week recovery. So I chose the repair, which meant to my administrators and coaches, looked like I chose my health over the team. So that put me my junior year uh after starting as a you know, pre-Christ started, uh moved to tackle to replace a guy who got drafted in the NFL after starting as a freshman. So, you know, everybody's like, You're gonna start in the SEC four years, you're replacing a guy in the NFL, you're you're going to the league. So uh that was derailed by my pre-Christ debauchery and DUIs and arrests and suspensions. Then I come to Christ, God changes my life, and it looks like I'm back on this right track, and then I have this knee injury. Uh, come back from that in October of my junior year, and for the rest of that season, so I missed the first four games. And for the rest of that season, my coach was held so much resentment that he started a true freshman, took his red shirt year. He wasn't ready to play, and he played one series, and then he would put me in. I'd play the rest of the game. And my junior year, I did not have one start, but played in eight games, but have no starts to my my credit. So uh so yeah, uh heading into my senior year, I was the small smallest starting lineman in the SEC at about 275 pre-camp and after camp about 265. Made all SEC, um, had a great year, played the best I'd ever played, was captain, blah, blah, blah. And had a couple agents pursue me and say, we think you could be a fifth to seventh round pick. Trained for the draft, got married in the middle of that, and uh did not get drafted. Uh, got invited to two camps. Um, and and most people don't understand free agency or or camps if you're uh if you're not really in it, you're essentially on your own. If you show up, they pay you a grand for the weekend tryout, uh, which covers your basically your expenses to get back. I'm a newlywed with no money, knowing I'm called to ministry, and kind of fair and I'd laid out a fleece that if you get drafted, we're gonna go for it and we'll chase it because we think God can open doors through that. We're not gonna. I got multiple guys. I got I got a guy who started next to me uh for multiple years, um, chased it forever, played in the XFL, tore his knee, thought he was gonna lose his contract, and uh got on a flight after knee surgery 48 hours later, got a blood clot, died at 25 year olds with two little kids chasing the dream. So uh I knew I didn't want to do that, and uh had an offer to go play in the World League, which is NFL Europe back then. And that fair and I talk about it a lot. Uh, for those of you who don't know, that's my wife. A lot of you guys know her. Um, I wouldn't say it's a regret, but it was Athletes in Action was really pursuing me to come on staff. We knew we were called to ministry. I swore I'd never be a youth pastor or a pastor, which never swear you're gonna tell God, never ever tell God you're not gonna do something, right? So um Farah had grown up in uh with an uncle who was president of Athletes in Action and and really said, Man, I never dreamed I'd marry a pastor. Uh B, never dreamed I'd marry a pastor, and C, never dreamed I would marry a pastor. But I know I love you, and and we're gonna do this together. And the only thing I will not do is raise individual support, which is pretty funny. As church planters, we all know that it's it's may not be individual support, but you got to raise money to plant

Called To Plant Then Forced To Wait

Paul Taylor 10:57

to church.

J.D. Pearring 10:57

So uh I think every church planter that we work with at some point in their lives said, I'm not gonna raise personal support. But you did exactly now. Your call and commitment went together, and you've talked before about your call to church planting and then this delay period, the space between. Yeah, talk about that not only then, but how is that how is that entered into your ministry, just that delay period, the time of waiting?

Paul Taylor 11:26

Well, you know, I think I I heard that concept first from you, uh, honestly. Uh it was when you were sharing your story, and most of us have heard it. If you're listening to this later on the podcast and you're ever contemplating coming to a discovery center, I was being assessed with my wife and JD at the end of the week. Uh, it was back then, it was a four-day process and and pretty stressful. And we get to the end, and it was like this I'll never forget sitting in Green Lake and hearing JD's story and talking about that, and telling the story of Red, and telling the story of you know, being offered the the job and then then it going away, and then having to come back and give the speech and all that, you know. So that that season of delay, uh, it it really just clicked when you told your story. And I realized that um for me personally, I I felt the call uh to plant a church uh in '99 during a extended period of fasting and kind of put it on the shelf and and tucked that away. And and then two years later, you know, and some people know this, some some may not. It was one of those moments where I was into a water fast 21 days and and just praying about kind of next phase in life, had never heard a clear call to plant, knew I was called to preach, knew I was an evangelist at heart, and didn't know anything. This is 1999 about church planting, never even heard of it. I was in a large megachurch that did not plant churches, they did missions overseas and uh really didn't do any church planting at all. And uh so for me that was kind of revelatory. And I just said I was reading Rick Warren's book, The Purpose-Driven Church back in the day, and I was reading about his process and he prayed when and where, and God said Orange County, and I said, Well, I'm gonna do what Rick did, and hopefully it'll be somewhere warm in Southern California like him. And uh unfortunately, God said Cincinnati, Ohio. And uh and uh so we just took that away. My wife is from this area. We'd live down south for our first five years of marriage, and uh two years after that call to plant, I'm sitting in an interview here in Cincinnati for the second thing I swore I'd never do, uh be a youth pastor. And uh at the end of that process, they said, Hey, we want to make this uh a senior staff, uh, we want to hire you. The job offers yours, we've listened to your tapes, and uh we want to make this executive position because we believe that uh you can start a church in three to five years. We got the first guy who's gonna do it uh in two years already on the team, and we drove out of that meeting going, Oh my gosh, God's got to be in this now. So you're thinking maybe there's the space between is short, it's only two years, and you know, but well, that that church still has not planted a church. That was 1999. Um I got there in 01 and and was there for six years. Uh, and I would say, you know, that 99 to September of 07 period of delay uh was extremely difficult in some ways. However, there's no way I should have planted a church one second sooner than I did. Not not even uh not even a day sooner. Uh, because I, like most people who've been in that position, was sitting on my back porch the night before launch going, what the bleep am I doing? I I'm not a senior pastor. How am I gonna do this? What in the world am I thinking? You know, all the lies, all the whispers, all the insecurity. Um, that by the way, I I don't think ever goes away. The enemy is gonna lie and attack our identity, attack our call forever. So I think, you know, that for me has always been a theme that I try to remind myself of, JD. Um in some ways, you know, when you're wired up, and that's what I love also about Excel is the emphasis on knowing who you are. You know, and when you when you have the strengths that that God has given me, the personality type God's given me, it's really, really easy to hit the gas, you know, blow past people, blow through people, and not give a crap about the the wake. Uh so I think, you know, what delay does is it allows other people who aren't wired like you to catch up, to catch the vision, uh, to understand where you're going, to give you time to explain it. So I think it's it continues to serve me well and us well. You know, no one likes COVID. No one likes what we've experienced the last 15 months as a culture. Um, but I believe the delay is helping us prepare for the next season of what God's called us to as an individual church and be much healthier, much more effective and better to do some what what I would call pruning, um, and also to do some clarifying. So I think you can always learn in the delay. Does it suck? Yeah. You know, always always think about Genesis 40, you know, and man sitting in the prison knowing that you didn't do anything to deserve to be there, helping you know, one guy get out and get back into his old job, and then you're forgotten, you know. So I think I think everybody can experience that that tension that Joseph felt in some ways.

Church After COVID And Digital Ministry

J.D. Pearring 16:36

So what do you see? Um as it's it sounds like the last year or so has been the waiting game, the space between for a lot of us. What do you see happening coming out? And I'm I'm not saying be prophetic and we're not gonna sure, sure. No, you know, I think what are your ideas going? Did you look at the church maybe as a whole going forward?

Paul Taylor 16:58

Well, I I think uh we have a unique opportunity. You know, I I'm a learner, so I'm always reading, I'm I'm always trying to see what people are saying, and I like to read and and hear what people are saying. But I think there's a lot of a lot of uh negative voices about the future of the church that you know in person's never coming back to what it was. Uh, it's all you know, if you're not online, and I and I'm all about a digital strategy. I'm all about, you know, two weeks ago we had an entire family talk to our online pastor, they all raised their hand during the prayer of salvation, followed up with them. The the mom, the dad, and the two teenage kids all got saved. We followed up with them. Man, I'm all about reaching people. Uh, so I think that that's that's not going away. We all have to have uh a dual threat, you know. We gotta be able to run and throw, if you want to use the the metaphor of the uh quarterback, you know, we needed we've got to be able to hand it off and hit the ground game, you've got to be able to throw it in the air game. So I I personally see um for those people who have been wise, uh for those people who have uh streamlined some things have can survive this because depending on who you talk to, there's gonna be a lot of churches that don't make it, but a lot of churches have already folded, a lot of opportunities to get a three million dollar building for a million, you know. I think Drisk will talk to us about that, accelerate. You know, there's gonna be a lot of opportunities, but I think there's a pent-up hunger spiritually that only the Church of Jesus Christ can meet. And I think when those restraints, we're already seeing it now. Uh, you know, uh we're seeing so many first-time guests just jumping as people get vaccinated, as people, you know, wherever you stand on vax, anti-vax, whatever. I think people are A, they're sick of it. Uh, B, they're they're feeling a little safer if they've gotten the vaccine, at least here in the Midwest context, and they're hungry. They're they're hungry for the word of God, they're hungry for community, they're hungry for that that thing. Uh man, I I've watched a lot of Zoom videos. Um, I've even experienced some some Zoom worship. We've done it over, you know, at the beginning of when we were closed from March the 11th till June, June 11th. Um we tried it all. And I don't know about you, but the first time I was able to do corporate worship again, and it was just with our staff, and it was just we were all masked up, and there were 40 of us in our chapel, and I just wept. And, you know, that yes, I'm a follower of Jesus, but I just believe that, you know, the the scriptures hold true that when people are in the presence of God, you know, and the word of God's going forth, that what Paul said to the church at Corinth is the secrets of your heart will be laid bare, and even the non-believer will say, Surely the Lord is among you. So I just feel like I have high expectations. It's gonna look different. And I think the final thing I'll say on that, you know, if we've kind of internally, executive team-wise, been saying, just like we all have, it's a we're rebuilding this, it's a replant. We a third may never come back, but that means we got to reach another third. That means there's just more people to replace them that are new and that weren't going anywhere. And at some point, Jeff Sharp, those of you know our executive, he's he said it this way that third may never come back until their life falls apart, until the you know, checks run out from the government, until the marriage falls apart, until they whatever it is, and and then they might come back. That might be 12 months, 18 months, three years from now. Uh, but in the meantime, there's a lot of people that are still in all of our communities who are far away from God and just looking for for hope. So I'm very optimistic. Is that 12 to 18 months? I don't know. I feel like it's it's at least here in our context, I think we're 18 months away.

Courage For Leaders Plus Needed Rest

J.D. Pearring 21:06

But with that in mind, what what encouragement would you give to other leaders as you um look to the future? I mean, you've had uh God just bless you guys immensely, but you've also been through a lot. What would you say to leaders right now?

Paul Taylor 21:23

Um, I would say, you know, the if you study church history at all or even modern modern church history, um, you know, John Wember kind of started the the vineyard movement, um, which was obviously big in the on the West Coast, but I've got some friends in that movement. And he he had a a phrase that he used to say that the way in is the way on. In other words, that what what brought you to Christ, what excited you about Jesus, what what what it was that captivated your heart in the beginning. It's the same thing that if you allow it to. And you maintain it, that's going to capture your heart in the end. And I think for us as church planters, um, man, it it's it's the same thing we say to everyone during the evangelism talk at the Discovery Center is like, don't be the dead end, don't be the cul-de-sac on uh a Christianity. You can still multiply now. And that may maybe your resources are limited, but you know, we planted a church in the middle of the pandemic uh with a partner organization um that these people just kept pursuing us over and over again. And you know, for years they came to a connection event, they kept just hounding us and hounding us, and finally, like, well, maybe they could be one of our church plants. And you know, they they built, launched, planted, and did everything during a pandemic when no one, no one in their entire that their church planting group uh didn't launch one other church globally. And and I would say this, you know, you gotta have the cojones to to keep doing what we know works. And you know, yes, be wise, of course, but keep reaching the lost, keep church planting, keep putting your money where your mouth is. Uh, and I and I think that coming out of that, and I think that's just man, be strong and courageous, have courage, take heart. John 16, 33, in this world you will have trouble, but be of good cheer because I have overcome the world. I mean, uh, this pandemic is it's just an opportunity, uh, you know, and yes, things look different. Yes, we all have to adjust, we all have to pivot, we all have to make changes, and we might be down in attendance, might be up in you know, discipleship. We might have to put something on pause, or like you said, JD, that that delay. But man, the the gospel still works. Um, and as a a movement, as a as brothers and sisters from around the country who we're on this call today or we're listening to it later because we believe that church planting is the single most effective way to make disciples and win people to Jesus. So I say um, man, don't lose that focus because the the daily grind, I'm sure, like all of you, is exhausting. We face more as pastors and church planters in the last 15 months than most pastors walk through in a lifetime as far as cultural events, things to navigate, things to do, I say anything, do I not say anything? If I don't say anything, then this group's gonna hate me. If I do say something, then this group's gonna hate me. If I post something, then I'm gonna be canceled. If I don't post something, I'm gonna be canceled by the other group, much less an election, much less a pandemic. And I think uh uh, you know, uh my last thing I'll say is in the middle of all that excitement and and and and being courageous, I know a lot of worn-out, exhausted, tired pastors who need to rest. So find out a way to do that, build it into your rhythm, uh, and make sure that that someone's pouring back into you.

J.D. Pearring 25:13

Wow. Well, I want to thank you personally and for all of us. Thank you for uh taking the long-term surgery and not the three-week surgery when you're in college. Thanks for not going to Europe to play uh football. Um, thanks for waiting it out to be able to plant and for your incredible example of uh generosity and perseverance and cojones and uh leadership. So thank you so much for what you're doing, and uh, we're gonna continue to pray that God would give you continued vision. Um just I'm very grateful for your heart as an evangelist, and uh we look forward to what God's gonna do and get some rest too. So thank you for being here.

Paul Taylor 25:59

Hey, I appreciate it. Thank you, JD. Thanks for having me.

Excel Network Next Steps

Announcer 26:04

Thanks for joining the Leading Conversations Podcast. We hope that you found it both helpful and encouraging. At Excel Leadership Network, our focus is on the church planter rather than the church. If you'd like to find out more about us, visit our webpage at excelnetwork.org. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. See you next time with another leading conversation.