Welcome And Show Setup

Announcer 0:22

Welcome to the Leading Conversations Podcast, sponsored by the Excel Leadership Network. On each episode, JD Perring will have conversations with church planning pastors and leaders from around the country. You can learn more about how to connect with Excel at the end of this podcast. Let's join JD now and listen in on this leading conversation.

Meet Jim Jessup And The Mission

J.D. Pearring 0:45

Well, welcome to another edition of the Leading Conversations Podcast with Excel Leadership Network. And today we have the great, the fantastic, the uh brilliant Jim Jessup from Jessup University. It was named after Jim. And he's the he's the man today. Jim, thanks for being here. You're welcome, brother. That's a lot of adjectives, though. I don't know.

Jim Jessup 1:09

Some of them aren't even true. Yeah, maybe. Not if you ask my wife, but okay.

J.D. Pearring 1:15

Good to be here. The

A College Built To Plant Churches

J.D. Pearring 1:18

university's name, uh, your did your grandfather start it?

Jim Jessup 1:21

Yeah, 1939. He started San Jose Bible College. Knew that the best way to, in fact, this really fits well with our interview, I think. Uh JD, he knew the best way, he felt, anyways, the best way to plant or to change culture was to plant a church. And then he realized, as he had planted a couple churches, you know, the best way for me to plant churches is to start a Bible college where I could train up some young men and women who would go and plant those churches. So in the decade of the 40s, the decade of the 40s, he started in 1939. He planted 40 different churches. Uh, many of those are still alive today. Uh Greater Bay Area. Yeah. Isn't that cool?

unknown 2:01

Wow.

Jim Jessup 2:01

Yeah, pretty neat.

Calling, Basketball, And Youth Ministry

J.D. Pearring 2:03

Well, tell me about your story. You grew up in the Bay Area?

Jim Jessup 2:06

Yeah, yeah. Born in Lancaster. My dad was a pastor down there in the uh Southern Cal area, Lancaster Desert, High Desert. And then um moved to uh San Jose uh when I was about five years old, as my father would uh uh move into ministry at San Jose Bible College. Uh came back to work at the school that he graduated from that my grandfather started. And um uh yeah, I I guess I just saw a man and a woman, my my mom and dad, who they lived out what they believed, you know. Uh you hear about a lot of preachers' kids who kind of they take a turn in life, they go a different direction. I never really chose a different direction. I just uh kind of I would say I had my experiences, uh great experiences with the Lord, but more merged into that relationship, you know, from uh early child, early childhood uh years. And uh when I was 16, I was at a summer camp and uh the speaker was preaching, and just I felt a call in my life to say, you know, at least to say to the Lord, God, if you'd open up doors for ministry for me, I I think I'd like to walk through those doors, you know. If those would open, uh if you'd show me the doors, I'll go the right way. And that's when the opportunity came to go ahead and go to San Jose Bible College. I love playing basketball. They had a basketball team. I was still not knowing what really what I wanted to do in life, but went and played ball and got into youth ministry while I was there.

J.D. Pearring 3:31

What was your position in basketball?

Jim Jessup 3:33

Well, we were not real tall, not real big team, so often I had to play center. I was I'm only 6'4, so I put a little padding in my shoes, you know, to try to bring me up a little bit. Those were the days when Simpson was still over in San Francisco and Bethany Bible College was in Scotts Valley. Right. And those were two of our rivals that we played all the time. We'd played Dominican Catholic College and Holy Names over in the Bay Area, Catholic colleges. And we just had a great time with it. But a buddy in school that was ahead of me, he was a youth pastor at a church in Pleasant Hill. And he was, he got in your graduation. He said, You ought to come and maybe be their student pastor, like I've been for the last couple of years. And I went and talked to the pastor, and I did that from the last two years of college and realized, man, this was fun. I enjoyed this. I was raising up some young people, teaching them about who the Lord was. Uh, a couple of them ended up going to Bible college themselves, and I thought, man, they're gonna pay me for this. I think I could do this, you know. And so I went into full-time youth ministry when I graduated and really enjoyed it, really enjoyed it. So that's kind of my journey. Uh uh, I guess I I I don't know how many details you want, but my wife, I found her in my junior year of college as well, and she said she thought she could be married to a pastor, okay? And so I we said, let's go.

J.D. Pearring 4:52

So

Seminary Years And Ministry Moves

J.D. Pearring 4:53

after doing the youth thing, what did you do next?

Jim Jessup 4:56

After youth ministry, which was in Klamath Falls, Oregon. We moved up to Oregon for it, okay. Uh, and loved it. We really started thinking, I I want to do more education, I'd like to get my master's degree, but that was back in 1989, and there weren't a whole lot of online courses yet back then.

J.D. Pearring 5:16

There was no online, and there was nothing.

Jim Jessup 5:18

And so we decided, Lady, let's go ahead and move back to Illinois. That'll put us fairly close to my wife's family in Kansas, and we could uh we could commute over there occasionally for some uh family get-togethers, and uh so Lincoln Christian Seminary in Illinois was where I ended up uh going to seminary. I had some friends that went there, it was an independent Christian church college, and back in those days I was a little bit more well, the word wouldn't be sectarian, but I was a little bit more in my denominational relationships, you know, of the independent Christian church. Weren't we all? Yeah, and that's really changed uh nowadays, man. I just uh my first question is not what your background would, but do you love Christ, you know? Um, and so yeah, finished my master's there. I was a pastor of a small church in Mount Auburn, Illinois, and uh finished my master's in pastoral care and counseling, looked at my wife and said, You don't want to stay in Illinois, do you? And she said, No. And so we moved back to California. I pastored a church in San Jose for a while, and then um uh then I I jumped around a lot when I was young. I then I worked at the college, helped my dad for a little while. Then I went back into ministry in Napa at a large church in Napa, it was first Christian church, about a thousand people, and I was on staff, even thinking about taking over from the senior guy. He was he hired me to take over from him. And uh as we got close to those years where I thought it was time, he said, Oh no, I'm gonna be around another five years or more, Jim. Oh, and I started thinking, I don't think I want to hang out that much longer before I take my own church. And it was right then that my dad was getting itchy at the land in San Jose. It just wasn't big enough land. We were stuck at 350 students on about four and a half acres of usable land in San Jose as San Jose Bible College. And that's when he started looking and found the land right up here in Rockland. And uh I was talking with him some. I said, Well, could you use a guy helping with the churches? I I really thought if I came over and helped with the churches to connect with the college, maybe God would just lead me into the right church that I ought to go be a pastor at. And uh now I've been doing this for 20 uh 20, what, two years now. Has it been 22 years since of the move? Something. Well, in uh the early 20 or early 03, I moved in. I was the first guy here on campus. Oh wow, yeah, uh February of 2003, and so this uh January, I guess we would call it uh 22. That's just amazing. Yeah, we opened our doors in 04, so it took us a while. We built okay, built the infrastructure, got relationships, built some donors uh up to uh get behind us, sold the land in San Jose, and uh the summer of 2004. I'll never forget what a whirlwind, man, to get everybody in and all the faculty moved up and all the students who would join us from San Jose, and uh opened our doors with about uh 450 students in uh the fall of 04, isn't that something? Now we're uh well close to 2,000 now.

J.D. Pearring 8:40

So wow. Well, your your dad was the one who orchestrated that move. And I I know you you had a really close relationship with your dad. Can you talk

Losing His Grandpa Mid-Sermon

J.D. Pearring 8:50

about that? Oh, sure.

Jim Jessup 8:52

Uh yeah. Uh you know, like I said uh earlier, he just really did live out what he preached, and so it was hard not to want to be around him. He's just a great guy and uh really was my best friend. Um, he passed away in 20. Um, and it was uh well, real quick, in 92 is when my grandfather died, and many of your listeners won't know this story, although I think I told you before. In 92, my grandfather, William Jessop, and my dad and I were able to preach at a church together in Morgan Hill. We were guest speakers. And grandpa is was 86 years old, and as he finished his message on passing on your faith to the next generation, that was our title, our theme, Passing on Your Faith. He finished his message, sat down, and I got up and uh halfway through my sermon, grandpa had a heart attack and died. And um, I often joke now as I tell that story. Uh yeah, at churches, sometimes I'll tell a story I say, now no one has died since. Well, I've been preaching now, so keep breathing. Um, but it was that story that would prompt my father, because my father was there that night. He watched me do the mouth-to-mouth resuscitation as a Boy Scout leader came forward and did compressions on my grandfather, but it was time to go home.

J.D. Pearring 10:10

Um how traumatic was that for you?

Jim Jessup 10:14

Oh, it was. Wow. Uh, you know, I mean, it can still kind of choke me up at times, I think, about my grandpa, because I knew him well. I was 26 at the time. And um, yeah, it was rough, and yet it was such a such a bittersweet thing, you know, to be able to hear his last message. And it was about passing on your faith to generations, not just family, but those of the next generation. And that was his part to start a Bible college. He wanted to pass the word on to the next generation, and um, yeah, to be there, to hear him, and then for him to hear me, you know, and I often reflect on that. And I don't know, you know, uh God's timing is impeccable, isn't it? Sometimes that God would say, Bill, I think it's time to come home. And Gramps would tilt his head back and start to choke on his tongue a little bit, as that would be his last breaths, and he would go on to be with the Lord.

J.D. Pearring 11:06

Can you can you imagine a better experience listening to your grandson preach? That's that's when you think you, you know, I can I can go.

Jim Jessup 11:17

Oh man, yeah. And it was uh it was a little traumatic for the 150 or so people that were there that Sunday. But in many ways, though, uh really uh very powerful, I think, for their own lives too.

His Dad’s Final Hike In Yosemite

Jim Jessup 11:31

Now, then what happens, GJD, was that in 20, my father and I, my father being almost 85, he would turn 85 in June of 20. And around March, right when COVID was breaking out and they were shutting churches down, a church in Sunnyvale asked us to come and preach because they wanted to videotape it, but they would still have a few in the audience. Well, um, we're driving there together, and my dad turns to me and says, as he started to do a lot when he was 80, almost 85, was to talk about his home going. And he says to me, You know, son, it'd be kind of neat to go home like grandpa did, and I'm driving the car for us to go preach somewhere. I said, No, I said, that wouldn't be good, man. Don't go on that, don't go that way, and don't do it today, okay? You know, and he kind of laughed and I laughed, and and I tell people now when I'm preaching that you know, you you really can be at peace with death when you really do trust in God. And it's not until you are at peace with death, I say, that you'll really find peace in life. Because if you're not at peace in death, then you'll be spending all of life simply trying not to die. And that's what a lot of people are doing. They're spending their life simply trying not to die. So my dad and I, we were able to joke about his home going. He he said, No, you're right. Dying in a church service is probably hard for other people, too. He said, Maybe, maybe, and he just said it like a little kid. It was really cool. He said, Maybe God would take me home in Yosemite. Because every summer we backpacked in Yosemite. And uh literally for the last oh gosh, 20, 30 years, we had gone into the backcountry of Yosemite, hardly missing a summer. And he loved this lake called Vogelsang Lake that we would go past it and on to what were called Florence Lakes. And well, uh that summer, uh July 28th of 2020, we uh we drove up there and had four buddies with us from the school here. And when dad got to Vogel Sang Lake, he took a nap and he went starting to fish around the left-hand side, and he had a heart attack, and he died.

Speaker 1 13:50

Amazing. I think back on it and uh he just he just dropped.

Jim Jessup 13:56

And uh David Timms, one of our he's the dean of our theology and leadership. He was with us. He was the first one to get over to him and said, Jim, come quick. Yeah, his heart had stopped. It was too late to do anything. So we uh we uh wrapped his body up and laid him by my tent. And uh the next morning the helicopter would come in to pick him up. It still still hits me, man, it's sorry for him. But uh boy, what a what a well I I you know I sat all night pretty much. I didn't sleep hardly at all, of course. Sat there thinking about him, and and you know, I just realized um how gracious God was to answer that kind of prayer, you know. And how neat it was to be able to be with him in a place that he loved so so very much.

unknown 14:51

Yeah.

Jim Jessup 14:52

Pretty cool, pretty cool. And luckily I was with four guys that were just you know in deep in faith with the Lord, and we were celebrating his life together, and it was a great time.

unknown 15:01

Yeah.

J.D. Pearring 15:03

Well, Jim, you you are a father figure to a lot of uh a lot of people these days. And uh I think part of that's because you've had such good examples, and um you don't you don't strike me as somebody who's got a big father wound. You uh you strike me as somebody who's just real thrilled to have just wonderful parents and grandparents. Uh yeah, thank you.

Jim Jessup 15:27

I do count myself as being blessed for that. I I um I do I do hurt for some folks who didn't have that kind of growing up, but I do challenge them to make uh the opportunity for those whom they're gonna pass that legacy on to themselves, you know.

J.D. Pearring 15:42

Yeah, yeah.

Partnering With Churches At Jessup

J.D. Pearring 15:44

So um what is it that you do at um at Jessup? You know, I said, Are you gonna be the president? And you were like, No, I don't want that.

Jim Jessup 15:54

Yeah, boy, there is a lot to it nowadays, boy. If you were to be the president of a Christian liberal arts university, especially in California, man. Can you imagine trying to hold a high ethical, high moral standard with your students? Um, keep your dorms separated as men and women and bathrooms separated for men and women, and uh oh my goodness. And yet God's been really gracious in that. We've had some wonderful donors who just continue to believe in what we're doing, they believe in uh strong gospel principles. And uh so my role is uh director of church relations, my role is to try to keep the first uh sentence of our or the first phrase of our uh mission statement um really in the forefront. And our mission statement is in partnership with the church, the purpose of Jessup University is to prepare transformational leaders for the glory of God. And so that's in that in partnership with the church, we we really do want to join with the church in raising up these leaders. We know if the church doesn't raise up young people who love the Lord, we're probably not gonna get the students here who are gonna go and transform the world for Christ. Uh, they might come because of a business program, they might come because of a music program or our nursing program now or aviation. We even have aviation. You can get your pilot's license with us. But and those are great. And I love the fact that Christians are coming in those degrees to go and and try to make a difference in the world. But um, I just really want to to have the pastors know who might be listening to these words now, that um their their opportunity to raise a young person to hear the call of God in their life, to plant a church, to hear the call of God in their life, to uh pastor a group of people, to lead them in the ways of uh of the of the Lord, you know, to teach the scriptures well. Um that's that's who I hope will come to our school so that we can continue to fulfill that mission that my grandfather started of planting churches and uh helping the church. Um so that's really at the essence my role. I do I do try to have churches support us if they believe in that mission. And really they're supporting our scholarship fund, so they're supporting the uh the discounts that we would give to students who can't afford to come. Um they are um these partner churches, which we have almost 150 now, really neat, 150 churches that give uh uh over $300,000 each year now to the scholarship fund, really makes a difference. And I oversee that. And with my uh my young man uh sitting by me here, Rowland's uh he's uh my associate now, doing a fantastic job with youth ministries and trying to challenge them, uh, challenge our youth pastors out there to do what we were just talking about, raising up these young people to hear God's call and to consider maybe a degree in in ministry of some sort.

J.D. Pearring 19:00

And I do know that churches contact you about placement of openings. Yeah pastor, do you got a stack of churches there that need pastors?

Jim Jessup 19:09

Yep, I sure do. Um you know, after 20 some years, 22 years, uh it's been really neat the relationships I've built. I mean, even with you with yourself, uh JD, as you reached out and welcomed me to come to one of your gatherings. Um, so appreciate that. And now I gotta be honest, I just I I probably respond to fires more than I do uh plan and try to strategize. I I get calls all the time from churches. Hey, we don't have a pastor, we've heard you'll help. Uh hey, we need a new youth, youth guy. That's why I had to hire Rowlands too, just to help me with some of that. Um hey, we we're thinking about shutting our church down, or we want to merge with somebody. Do you know anybody? Oh, well, yeah. And I I get together with them, and I'm kind of I I kind of liken it to be in the e-harmony uh for churches, you know. Okay, I got this church over here, doesn't have a pastor, uh, and they're going really well. I got this church over here, does have a pastor, but they need a building. Let's let's get them over here together, you know. And I I love it. Uh it's just been really, really uh it's been very satisfying to see how I've been able to connect people and be able to connect the church. So it's been good.

J.D. Pearring 20:25

Good. Well

Preaching Club And Real-Time Feedback

J.D. Pearring 20:26

and talk about your preaching event. Yeah, you have a preaching club and you you do uh teach preaching classes.

Jim Jessup 20:34

Yeah, yeah. We we have a preaching class about every other year, but um because it's just again, not enough students coming to consider pastoral ministries, but um there are a lot of students who do want to be able to preach. They want to be able to get up and speak God's word well. And so our theme verse for my club, I have a club that meets every Monday. And um uh we had 22 in it this last semester, so I was very encouraged by that. They are of all different majors, some of them are leadership and ministry majors, but some of them are math majors and uh social science and uh public policy. It's really fun to see the different majors that want to come because the theme verse is uh 1 Peter 3:15. Uh, you know, set apart Christ as Lord and always be ready to give a reason for the hope that you have. So I just challenge them uh how they can get up in front of a group, begin to get comfortable sharing God's word. And um, it's really a fun time. As I I teach a little bit in the club, not a lot. I try not to make it a class. I want them up speaking, but I do teach them a little bit about how do you put together a sermon. And then I just challenge those who are ready to get up and do it in club. They get up, they give a 20 minute sermon, we critique it. Everyone in the class tells us here's what we think we heard, here's what we think you were trying to get across, here's suggestions we have for you. And if they do a really good job, um I sent them to one of those churches, you know, that it is little little church up in Wheatland doesn't have a pastor, or uh uh little church up in Orland that's uh empty, or uh uh somewhere right nearby. And I just say, Hey, I got a got a student who'll come preach for you, and they love it, you know. It's just great. Yeah. And they get to cut their teeth and practice, and it's it's a win-win.

Why Support Jessup’s Ministry Pipeline

J.D. Pearring 22:22

Okay, give us your quick uh and best pitch for either coming to Jessup or supporting.

Jim Jessup 22:29

Oh man. You know, um I just really still believe in what my grandfather said. I really do think one of the best ways to uh, and I guess I would use the word help guys like yourself plant churches. One of the best ways to uh help other churches plant more churches is to prepare young people who would feel a call to go into it. Because I think that's probably what you're what you're looking for all the time is guys who are ready, guys and gals who are ready to go plant, right? You just there's not enough. Uh and so um my pitch is that boy, if if you're interested in um maybe helping the church from a leadership capacity, an actual occupational pastor, uh then I'd love to have you consider Jessup University at both the bachelor's degree level or at our master's level. We've got an MAL, Master of Arts and Leadership. We also now, because of our relationship out of Portland with Multnomah, we now have the D Men uh or the MD of and the D Men uh is available here at Jessup now. And I do believe that there's a strong arm of practical uh, you know, what I've been watching with our faculty, they do a good job of the practical side. It's not all head knowledge, getting them into churches that are doing well, serving through the internships, residencies, and then learning and growing, even in some church plants that are started with some of our uh, you know, interns that are helping out.

J.D. Pearring 23:56

So good, good, good. And I'm I'm assuming that John Jackson's gonna listen to this. So tell us something about John Jackson.

Jim Jessup 24:06

Fantastic

John Jackson’s Pace And New Programs

Jim Jessup 24:07

leader. He has taken us from um, I think there was maybe only six or seven hundred students when he took over in 2011. And um, so I don't know how many years that is now. I think he's on 13 or 14, whatever that would be, 14 years. And um has done a phenomenal job. Now uh he is a hard guy to catch up to. He is a leader that runs out in front. Yeah, runs out in front. So his team is exhausted at times. And so, John, if you're listening, uh just remember your team is running fast to try to keep up with you. Um, but uh, you know, in many ways, that's what a good leader does instead of waiting uh too long. He's saying, come on, catch up, right? Catch up, we can do this. Um, and so yeah, I think the future is very bright. We've got uh so many great new programs. Um, like I mentioned just briefly, the the aviation program, it's a pun, but it's really taken off. I mean, it's uh it I think there's 60 students or so now in aviation. Our nursing has run through all the probation status now, and it's it's up and just running really strong. I think it's got 50 or 60 in it as well. And um so with with Moltnoma and the San Jose extension, I think we're uh up just under 2,000 students or so. It's really been amazing. Wow, that's great. That's great.

J.D. Pearring 25:32

So really good. Really good. Hey,

Leadership, Worry, And Dropping The Blanket

J.D. Pearring 25:35

uh, give us uh leadership tip or two. You've been doing this a while. You're the uh you're the father figure, as I said. Give us a couple leadership tips.

Jim Jessup 25:44

You know, I've got these um I've got post-its uh all around my screen here of when I hear a really sharp leadership uh uh quote, you know, or just a principle. And I put them there because I I want them to become a part of who I am. To be honest, I I don't see myself as uh the real strong leader. I see my support, I see myself as the support of those who are leading. And by I'm more the barnabus, more the encourager side than I am the real strong driving leader. Uh that's why I joked with you that yeah, if the presidency ever came up, I I don't know, it'd probably kill me. I don't know if I could do it, you know. Uh yeah. Uh others might kill a college, I'd be the it would kill me, is what it would happen. But um, I've got one over here from old Dallas Willard that I really love. Uh it was a simple one. He said, you know, the main thing that you will bring to your church, he was speaking to pastors. The main thing you'll bring to your church is the person you're becoming. Not who you are right now, but the person you're becoming. I really liked that. Because I think it says to your people, it says to anybody who's following you, here's where I'm headed, here's what I'm working on, here's what uh the results are looking like, here's who I am becoming in Christ. Just as Paul said, right? I I press on, I've not obtained it, but I'm pressing on. So the the the the the the best thing, the main thing, the greatest thing I think you bring to your church for the pastors who are listening, and really for your own for your own family too, as a father or a mother, the greatest thing you bring is the person you're becoming. Um we all make mistakes, we all have sin in our lives, we all have shortcomings, but the greatest thing you'll bring to your relationships is the person you're becoming. And I really like that one.

J.D. Pearring 27:41

And I ask, uh what's one area that you're working on right now? I mean, you're you've pretty much arrived, Jim, but what's one area?

Jim Jessup 27:52

Wow. Uh you know, I I'm uh I'm afraid I would admit that I'm still a worrier. I'm a I'm a worrier. Yeah, I can allow things to uh cause me worry. In fact, with our team this morning, our advancement team, I led, I I lead our our advancement team meetings just from um the the morale side of things. We have a great strategy guy here, and he he does the strategy for advancement and fundraising and everything. But I'm I'm more the pastoral side and I I bring the team together in unity. And I showed him this little clip this morning of the Charlie Brown Christmas, and I bet you've heard this one. But when Linus at the end of the Charlie Brown Christmas show, Linus tells what Christmas is all about, and he's holding his blanke and he quotes Luke chapter two, you know, when the angels appeared and then they said uh don't fear, don't fear. I bring you great or good news of great joy. And it was at that moment he dropped his blanke when he said great fear, he dropped his blanky. And I talked with a team about the fact that maybe some of us still have blankets because we just we just need that comfort because we haven't given it all yet to the Lord. And it was in that moment Linus, you know, realizes he's talking about the angel saying, You don't have to fear, and he drops his blanket. If you don't know that uh little clip, man, you ought to watch that. You can go to YouTube and see that little clip. Yeah, Linus drops his blanket, and it is it's really, really cute how Charles Schultz uh, you know, he had enough faith in the Lord to put that into his uh to his Christmas story. And um yeah, I I I think uh I think I I struggle still in the area of of worrying, you know. Um I worry a little bit, not only about family stuff, but I worry for the school too at times. Just as I mentioned, to be a Christian college with high moral values in California is not an easy thing, man. Will we be able to hold on to what we believe? Um and I just try to keep giving it over to the Lord, drop that blanket and rely on yeah.

J.D. Pearring 30:08

Well, well, thank you for that, Jim. That's uh that's I need to I need to check out Charlie Brown. I don't remember that. Uh I don't remember that part, but that that makes a lot of sense. Let go of our blanky. Hey, thanks for your vulnerability. Thanks for what you're doing. You're a glue that holds so many of the churches here in Northern California together. Uh, but also, you know, you're making a big impact on the students. And you know, I don't think I've ever heard anybody say a bad word about you.

Jim Jessup 30:38

So I don't know if that's good or bad, but um well, I could have you interview my wife if you know me. But thank you, brother. I appreciate that. Thanks so much for being on the podcast today. Thank you, JD. God bless you, brother.

Sponsor Message And How To Connect

Announcer 30:58

Christian Community Credit Union is America's leader in biblical banking solutions. As a trusted ministry partner of Excel Leadership Network, they are dedicated to serving ministries in all life stages of growth. Whether you're planting a new church or expanding, Christian Community Credit Union will come alongside your ministry to help you grow so you can serve more. We offer low-rate ministry loans as well as products to maximize your ministry's money, including high interest checking, savings, and CDs. Take the next step and learn more at mycccu.com slash Excel. That's mycccu.com slash Excel. Membership eligibility is required. Thanks for joining the Leading Conversations Podcast. We hope that you found it both helpful and encouraging. At Excel Leadership Network, our focus is on the church planter rather than the church. If you'd like to find out more about us, visit our webpage at Excelnetwork.org. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. See you next time with another leading conversation.